Can I just point out that without the points deduction, we would have finished the season 3 points behind Leeds, who are the SL Champions? Yet I have read plenty of their "fans" - invariably the "McDermott Is A Rubbish Coach" brigade - who still say they are crap, although they tend to have had to evolve from "he can't coach" to "he may be able to sort of coach but I really hate the style of rugby we are playing, I don't enjoy the games any more" etc.

Personally I think that glory years are rare, and whether any team achieves them is in the lap of the gods. So, for example, Leeds have now won the SL title 2 years on the trot - and it is a massive achievement. Yet I can't call those seasons Leeds glory years really, as they haven't really stood out as the seasons have gone on, not in the way that Saints or Bradford used to in their pomp.

So personally, I would like to see us continue to evolve and build gradually, and hope agaisnt hope that the combination of progressive youngsters that we have, the quality of the established players, and maybe one or two shrewd signings, somehow end up being the magic mix that is so unpredictable but that you definitely need in order to even think about "glory years".

If it happens, it happens. For now I just want a competitive and learning/improving side, preferrably with a nucleus of our own best youngsters, playing with the "spirit of 2012". That will do for me, and let's see where we can go from there.

In our "glory years" we won SL four times. Leeds have won it five times in the last 6 years. It irks me to say it but if you take the whole SL era since 1996, Leeds are the only ones competing with St Helens for "the best club in the SL era".

There are 3 trophies on offer at most each year, 4 if you count the irrelevant hub cap, and Leeds have won 2 this year. They are the best club around as they seemingly have won the comp for the last 2 years whilst not relying on bending the salary rules like others (including ourselves in the past) have!

For many BUlls fans, the 2005 win from third was the best of our 4 SL titles (although I think the first was as it was under the old system), even better than our brilliant season in 2003. Does 1999 come close because we finished top but lost in the final? NOt for me I am afraid.

I dont normally ever want leeds to win anything, but lets not forget, they have helped us a lot this year when we've needed it the most! They deserve their plaudits. 9 years ago, Sinfiled was abit of a joke character when he shouldve gone for 2 at Cardiff, and we were the most successful club around. How times have changed!

So, well done Jimmy and Brian Mac. True BUlls legends. But lets not get concerend too much with Leeds, we have got bigger matters in hand here! BUt 5 titles in 6 years does in my opinion count as a golden era!

The voice of common sense, and I couldn't agree more. It's easy to get into the 'we're a big club near the top and it will last forever', sort of attitude, but generally it doesn't last "forever", or even close to it, and many clubs will get their turn in the sun, if they wait around for it. There are many decisions taken by the bods in charge; some turn out for the best and some, well, don't, but you can never tell what [iwill[/i work and what [iwon't[/i, until it's too late.

Let's get a team based around the young players and a few older veterans then give them their head - we've little to lose and much to gain, but let's keep immediate expectations to a minimum, eh?.

Personally I'm not sure there is any such plan, even considering your humorous faux pas. I generally think RFL or SLE do a reasonable job in impossible circumstances. It's the easiest thing in the world to blame all RL's problems, as those from Royston Vasey Warriors are doing because they lost in the play-offs, at the feet of the RFL without any knowledge of what work is actually going off behind the scenes.

Of the big 7, I presume you are referring to Hudds' sugar daddy, as this is oft mentioned. From what I can gather Davy has a genuine love of the area & is happy pumping in his money. Hudds are probably alone in that bunch in not being sustainable from a current attendance perspective. Cats have shown the difference between having a good coach & a useless fat Aussie on a drinking holiday with his Brizzy buddies. But that, & Wakey's remarkable achievements this season, what can be attained with the right structure in place.

Catalans took approx 5m Euros in sponsorship & corporate sales last financial year.

And their superb new stand had a significant amount of local/regional government support.

A club on the up.

This ^

I'll just be thankful to have a team to watch, and if they can compete, show some progress and not give in, all the better. Thats all I want from SL 2013.

You are welcome to your opinion, but this Leeds team isn't a patch on the Bulls at their pomp.


First I don't think the salary cap issues had [ianything at all[/i to do with our successes. Second, your comments reflect the difference between (and I am not aiming this personally at you BTW) a statistician who has all the figures numbers and percentages, and someone who actually watches the game and understands and appreciates the play. Statistics can be used to 'prove' pretty much anything.


I am one of those weird people that likes the playoffs. I think there is great merit in being the team that sweeps almost all before it to finish top of the pile, and that gives that team the best claim - at that stage - to be called a great team or to use the season's performance as partial evidence of greatness. The fact that you don't [ineed[/i to finish top to be Champions, whilst true, doesn't detract any more than a couple of percent from the achievement of a team which genuinely murdered the league.

But then there is the end of season comp, which is (almost) knock-out rugby, and to be Champions you have to be the best at that.

So if a team wins from 5th or 6th it CAN indeed cite those wins as evidence of it's claim to greatness. Unfortunately, though, it can NOT cite it's over-the-season performances in support, as frankly over the season it did not play all that great, and so to me can't qualify as a great team. in the sense I mean when I talk of great teams.

Moving on to Leeds specifically, we have a generally ageing squad that has two years on the trot summoned up from somewhere the spirit and determination to win at any price, and has done so. Taken in conjunction with their performances in the preceding years, when they were perhaps "at their peak" and playing overall far better rugby, they do indeed merit the description of a great team, golden era, call it what you want.


Actually I didn't blame him, the decision was on his shoulders, he made it and it was not an unreasonable one. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but nobody can say that decision cost Leeds the game, because it didn't. Times, of course, have always changed and always will. Leeds' good times will inevitably decline too. Sinfield, though, surely deserves to go down as one of the legends of the game.

I presumed Caddick was throwing his money at Leeds. Cats, I am not sure about.

It's my opinion that this Leeds team has won almost as many titles as Wigan did in their pomp but in a more competitive league.

Bit isn't that sort of stats based thing rather than an opinion?

I had an interview last friday at Odsal with the corporate manager (Simon) about a possible job opening at bulls.

Well, I got the placement !!!!! I'm soo pleased, although its gunna start as a non-paid role with a view to making it a paid job

I'm not so sure that Caddick can be termed a sugar daddy. The development of the stadium (and both the Rhinos and Carnegie) has been the result of very astute business where the funds have been secured from sources outside Carrick's "empire". And now the Rhinos side is so successful that the joint operation runs at a profit. Some of the Leeds fans are convinced that Carrick became involved to secure the future of his primary sporting love--kick and clap. They believe the Rhinos substantially subsidise the Union operation.
With Catalans ,as noted above, there is very substantial municipal and local business involvement. Using the name of Catalans rather than Perpignan was a master stroke-- it served to ensure local businesses and councils were seen to be backing a distinct national identity.

Can we return to the glory days in a few years. YES OF COURSE we can. Look at Wigan, they were on the verge of been relegated in 2006, four years later they are champions.

Our circumstances are slightly different in that we have finances to consider, but we have the core of the squad from last year, and with the likes of Bateman, Donaldson, O'Brien developing, we could have a great squad of homegrown players.

It will be hard and not an overnight success, but if we can get our finances in order, and promote the youth we have every chance of returning to the glory days.

We need a good spell in the doldrums to truly taste the spoils of being called champions!

Who can forget 1997? The joy, the relief, the party's! Coming home and destroying Paris, without getting out of first gear!

Moments in history that taste all the sweeter after a long spell in the wilderness!!!

As Caddick is from Cas it is particularly galling.

FA, I am astounded! For the first time in my many years on this forum, I've disagreed with you, and youve responded with sound opinion and without sarcasm or put downs. Has someone hacked your account?

This could become a good discussion!

What era would you regard as "the bulls in their pomp?"
1997 and the 20 unbeatern matches, punctuated by 7 defeats in 7 matches in the WCC and a defeat at Wembley and out first round in the premiership. followed by 1998, probably the biggest let down in history as we are nocked out of the cup by Cas in our first round, and out of playoffs in first week.

Or is it 1999 when we lost in the cup semi to Leeds, finished top by 5 points and then lost in the final with the "Hand of withers"?
2000 when we won the CC (when it was a pre season tournament) but then again failed to get to the grandfinal from third.
2001 was a good year, losing in CC final, finishing top of the league and stuffing Wigan in the final. (or was it that the competition was weak this year?)
2002 was a let down, just the WCC to show for it.

OK so 2003 must go down as the peak musnt it? Beating Wigan in the GF, finishing top of the league, and winning the CC. followed by beating Penrith in the WCC, but then 2004 was a let down. Finishing 9 points off top, and losing in the grand final again!
2005 wasnt much better in league terms! A full 10 points off the top before we romped to the final and won it!

compare this with a similar period for leeds:
2004 top of table win GF
2005 second and lost in GF
2006 3rd
2007 2nd win GF
2008 2nd win GF
2009 1st win gf
2010 4th out in semis
2011 5th win GF
2012 5th win GF


all this in the context of the salary cap having more of an impact and a league where 5-6 clubs can genuinely claim to have a chance of winning!

I hate Leeds as much as the next Bradfordian, but doing down thier acheivements doesnt do our game any justice.

is that slightly different like HItler was a little bit evil?

There is a world of difference between Wigan's resurgence under Ian Lenaghan and our chances with OK and Gerry in charge!

we need to get real!

what sort of crowds do you think you will get next season with the prices been up for season tickets

Have you considered it might just be the first time you posted something sensible?





Here's the thing; I don't hate Leeds. I do mock-hate Leeds, of course, but not really. What you are doing is confusing their achievements with the actual team as in the players and the way those players played as a team and the rugby they played, the style, the entertainment, the fear they struck into the heart of the opposition, the admiration of the wider rugby world.

An artist can do very well for themselves while being unable to paint, or be an utter genius yet never win an award or even be accepted into the academy of the time. But when you see the paintings, you know, and when I saw us play, I knew.

I don't know why you would think I am doing down Leeds' achievements, on the contrary, not at all. I thought I'd explained that. This season for example i am full of admiration for the way they have gritted their teeth and ground out a GF win. That win gives them a substantial credit. But have they been a great team this season? Of course they haven't. Warrington, for most of the season, and Wigan for much of it have played rugby of a much higher standard than Leeds.

I mean, we played [iall right[/i over the season, as a whole, too, (we played only 3 league points worse than Leeds) but you couldn't even begin to compare our standard of play as a team with the days of Vaikona and Vainikolo, Henry and Robbie, the Awesome Foursome etc. And it's not just league points. Plenty of Rhinos fans have expressed considerable disgruntlement with the style of play under McDermott, and say they no longer enjoy watching them play.

I think, Mr Lawyer Man, with a bit of charitable interpretation you might be able to penetrate through to my opinion.

FA, I feel reassured by your return to normality!

Then I disagree with it, we were sooooo good they even had a name for it - Bullmania. We were an unstoppable force across the RL board.

Have you ever hear of Rhinomania? No.

Did they ever humiliate the cream of RU in the Middlesex Sevens? Not that I recall.

Did their halfbacks ever make a rap record? I don't think so.

Bullmania took support from very little to through the roof. Once there was trouble at t'mill the fans generated in the hysteria of Bullmania vanished as quickly as they came. It was remarkable while it lasted and I hope the loyal fans that are left are now treated with more respect than you got from Peter Hood.
Yeah, you were fantastic and you enjoyed it while it lasted. Maybe this regime can build something more stable and give you a long term future to look forward to.

Anyway enough of that. At least I don't see those flaming BULL POWER stickers on back windscreens anymore. Good luck for next season and thank you for almost making up for you taking Jimmy Lowes off us by letting us have Jamie Peacock.

4000 average crowd in 1995, 11,700 average in 2012,


yep theyve all gone!