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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"Depends who you believe.
According to the Council, Westfield are still committed to developing the site and something should be moving on it within the next two years.
According to Westfield, they are committed to proceeding with development once it is fiscally prudent to do so - in other words, maybe never.
According to Gerry Sutcliffe MP, Westfield have offered the Council the chance to buy the land back off them. The Council are denying any talks of that nature have taken place and demanding Sutcliffe reveals his sources.'"
The difference between the Westfield view of the future and the Council view of the future needs some explanation.
INO the Council have made an awful mess of this. The re-development should have been complete before the recession started. Now it looks increasingly like it'll never happen.
In the meantime more businesses go to the wall in town. I was at the Love Apple on Friday night a couple of weeks back, there were only 10 of us in the whole place. Pubs nearby were equally empty. In noticed Walkabout has shut. It's only a matter of time before there are only a couple of pubs left in the city centre. The place has died on its backside over the past 10 years. |
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I love the fact that the council have to buy part of their own city back from a private company. That just doesn't seem right.
Time for some direct action people, tear down those barricades.
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How long will it be before Westfield go belly up?
Can't say it would be a big surpirse if they did as many building firms are experiencing problems right now. Personally I can't see who would want to by a big hole in the ground in Bradford, so the council could end up with it being given back to them for nothing.
Under no circumstances should the council pay £80m to buy it back. That would be absolutely stupid.
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| it's such a shame to see Bradford going belly up like this.  |
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The thing is Westfield know the council have a huge wad of cash sat in bank account somewhere from the sale of a certain airport. If enough pressure is put on the council from various sources who's to say they might well stump up some of this. Was this the Westfield plan all along?
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| Quote ="bull at work"The thing is Westfield know the council have a huge wad of cash sat in bank account somewhere from the sale of a certain airport. If enough pressure is put on the council from various sources who's to say they might well stump up some of this. Was this the Westfield plan all along?'"
i'd be surprised if it was. I'd say Westfield's reputation will be lowered somewhat after this shambles. |
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| Quote ="bull at work"The thing is Westfield know the council have a huge wad of cash sat in bank account somewhere from the sale of a certain airport. If enough pressure is put on the council from various sources who's to say they might well stump up some of this. Was this the Westfield plan all along?'"
I thought that had been spent/assigned to worthwhile projects such as the Odsal Sporting Village? |
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| Quote ="phillgee"i'd be surprised if it was. I'd say Westfield's reputation will be lowered somewhat after this shambles.'"
Got to agree, but who knows what goes on in the corridors of power when millions are at stake. We only find out about it years later after some internal audit or a councilgate body appears. |
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| Quote ="bull at work"Got to agree, but who knows what goes on in the corridors of power when millions are at stake. We only find out about it years later after some internal audit or a councilgate body appears.'"
yeah, blotting the city like they have done and walking away with millions of the council's money (if it happens) should be punishable.
It doesn't seem acceptable business practice to decide when they do and don't build the shopping . Wouldn't the council have fines in place to make sure deadlines are kept to? If any were agreed that is.
I'm not an expert on how this project works but surely Westfield will have tendered for building the and should have had deadlines in place to get the building built? |
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| Quote ="phillgee"yeah, blotting the city like they have done and walking away with millions of the council's money (if it happens) should be punishable.
It doesn't seem acceptable business practice to decide when they do and don't build the shopping Centre. Wouldn't the council have fines in place to make sure deadlines are kept to? If any were agreed that is.
I'm not an expert on how this project works but surely Westfield will have tendered for building the Centre and should have had deadlines in place to get the building built?'"
As far as I know Westfield have already passed three start dates or completion not sure which, and I'm sure somebody has said the council did'nt have a penalty clause in the contracts so hey ho no one to jump on from a great height. If thats the case very poor planning on a project this size. |
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| We got any hot shot commercial lawyers lurking about? What I want to know is why can't the Council, given the way the city appears to have been shafted so far, take the necessary steps to CPO the land? I doubt the price of land in Bradford centre would come out at £80m. They should then do what I said in the first place and resurrect the original Forster Square as a new improves (and extended) fine pedestrian square of the sort which so enhance so many superb cities across Europe.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"We got any hot shot commercial lawyers lurking about? What I want to know is why can't the Council, given the way the city appears to have been shafted so far, take the necessary steps to CPO the land? I doubt the price of land in Bradford centre would come out at £80m. They should then do what I said in the first place and resurrect the original Forster Square as a new improves (and extended) fine pedestrian square of the sort which so enhance so many superb cities across Europe.
'"
Now that does look good, the only problem is the council would want to knock down the old PO building as an eyesore given their track record to date |
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| Quote ="bull at work"Now that does look good, the only problem is the council would want to knock down the old PO building as an eyesore given their track record to date'"
So they should it blocks the Cathedral and was plonked in the wrong place, .
Bradford City Centre has been on the decline for a long time and this debarcle tippifies Bradford Counciol mismanagement for me, years behind every other city over redevelopment, too much infighting to make a decision results in the City nose diving... now Bradford has a big hole in the ground begging for redevelopment a city centre that rivals Baghdad and is just as friendly.
Im glad its not (now) my hard earned money that may be at risk due to mismanagement by the council/Westfield. cant see positives on this for a long time.. |
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Quote Yorkshire Forward displayed a lack of confidence in the project back in 2002, when it refused to back the scheme, citing worries over its viability.'"
www.accessmylibrary.com/article- ... adway.html
2002? Some mistake, surely? It's not that it was flawed from the outset, it's only failing because of the recession. |
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Quote Yorkshire Forward displayed a lack of confidence in the project back in 2002, when it refused to back the scheme, citing worries over its viability.'"
www.accessmylibrary.com/article- ... adway.html
2002? Some mistake, surely? It's not that it was flawed from the outset, it's only failing because of the recession. | |
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| Quote ="vbfg"www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-133001624/westfield-chance-make-broadway.html
2002? Some mistake, surely? It's not that it was flawed from the outset, it's only failing because of the recession.'"
 2002????????
WTF???? |
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It gets better.
Can't get full access to this articvle but note the last line:
Quote The council also this week decided to grant consent to Broadway, despite reservations about the scheme's design, in order to meet a deadline for [pounds sterling10m of European ... '"
www.accessmylibrary.com/article- ... -wins.html
Something about signing the contracts when they did gave the council access to a pot of cash, but I can't determine what for. Possibly this:
Quote The signing of the development agreement by Bradford Council and the development partnership - headed by Britain's biggest retail investment company Stannifer - also unlocks a £6 million European grant to fund road changes and the demolition programme. '"
archive.thisisbradford.co.uk/200 ... 05651.html
Both published about the same time.
So, [i despite their own reservations[/i, the contract signing was rushed through to fund the road alterations that happened around the site.
That's why we need to pay £80 million to get our land back from the people we gave it to. The council gave away the farm for some magic beans.
I say "we", I mean you. I'll be paying taxes to a different authority as of next week. You'll hear the door slam as I leave. |
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It gets better.
Can't get full access to this articvle but note the last line:
Quote The council also this week decided to grant consent to Broadway, despite reservations about the scheme's design, in order to meet a deadline for [pounds sterling10m of European ... '"
www.accessmylibrary.com/article- ... -wins.html
Something about signing the contracts when they did gave the council access to a pot of cash, but I can't determine what for. Possibly this:
Quote The signing of the development agreement by Bradford Council and the development partnership - headed by Britain's biggest retail investment company Stannifer - also unlocks a £6 million European grant to fund road changes and the demolition programme. '"
archive.thisisbradford.co.uk/200 ... 05651.html
Both published about the same time.
So, [i despite their own reservations[/i, the contract signing was rushed through to fund the road alterations that happened around the site.
That's why we need to pay £80 million to get our land back from the people we gave it to. The council gave away the farm for some magic beans.
I say "we", I mean you. I'll be paying taxes to a different authority as of next week. You'll hear the door slam as I leave. | |
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| Quote ="Mystic Leper"So they should it blocks the Cathedral and was plonked in the wrong place, .
..'"
I've heard this complaint before but the old PO building is a lovely piece of architecture and complements the run of buildings into the bottom of Little Germany beautifully. Whereas the Cathedral is - well, about as uninspiring a "cathedral" as there probably is, anywhere. I've seen many better village churches. As a pride of place feature it would be embarassing. You could argue that they should knock it down as it blocks the view of Paper Hall. |
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| Quote ="vbfg"snip'"
I suspect the £10m was ERDF funding to put in the utilities/change the roads/pay for demolition to make way for the the Broadway development. I'm surprised that cash hasn't been clawed back TBH given that the Broadway development hasn't materialised. If it wasn't going to happen then in theory the council would run the risk of having to pay back the grant money. |
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The whole thing is an absolute disgrace. What can we, the people of Bradford, do about this? Write to our MPs? Contact the council?
It won't do any good I shouldn't imagine, but it won't do any harm. Don't hold your breath though. I contacted the council about the Odsal scheme about a year ago, they have still not got back to me.
So for anyone who wants to try:
Bradford North
Member for this constituency
Mr Terry Rooney
Party
Labour
Website
www.terryrooneymp.co.uk
Telephone
House of Commons Switchboard: 020 7219 3000. Please ask for the office of Mr Terry Rooney.
Letter
Mr Terry Rooney, House of Commons, London SW1A 0AA
Bradford South
Member for this constituency
Mr Gerry Sutcliffe
Party
Labour
Website
www.gerrysutcliffe.org.uk
Email
Email Mr Gerry Sutcliffe
Telephone
House of Commons Switchboard: 020 7219 3000. Please ask for the office of Mr Gerry Sutcliffe.
Letter
Mr Gerry Sutcliffe, House of Commons, London SW1A 0AA
Bradford West
Member for this constituency
Mr Marsha Singh
Party
Labour
Email
Mr Marsha Singh cannot be contacted by email
from this website.
Telephone
House of Commons Switchboard: 020 7219 3000. Please ask for the office of Mr Marsha Singh.
Letter
Mr Marsha Singh, House of Commons, London SW1A 0AA
This site:
findyourmp.parliament.uk/
to find them and email them.
Here to find and contact your councillor:
www.bradford.gov.uk/bmdc/contact ... ouncillor/
Go on everyone, fire off a quick email. |
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The whole thing is an absolute disgrace. What can we, the people of Bradford, do about this? Write to our MPs? Contact the council?
It won't do any good I shouldn't imagine, but it won't do any harm. Don't hold your breath though. I contacted the council about the Odsal scheme about a year ago, they have still not got back to me.
So for anyone who wants to try:
Bradford North
Member for this constituency
Mr Terry Rooney
Party
Labour
Website
www.terryrooneymp.co.uk
Telephone
House of Commons Switchboard: 020 7219 3000. Please ask for the office of Mr Terry Rooney.
Letter
Mr Terry Rooney, House of Commons, London SW1A 0AA
Bradford South
Member for this constituency
Mr Gerry Sutcliffe
Party
Labour
Website
www.gerrysutcliffe.org.uk
Email
Email Mr Gerry Sutcliffe
Telephone
House of Commons Switchboard: 020 7219 3000. Please ask for the office of Mr Gerry Sutcliffe.
Letter
Mr Gerry Sutcliffe, House of Commons, London SW1A 0AA
Bradford West
Member for this constituency
Mr Marsha Singh
Party
Labour
Email
Mr Marsha Singh cannot be contacted by email
from this website.
Telephone
House of Commons Switchboard: 020 7219 3000. Please ask for the office of Mr Marsha Singh.
Letter
Mr Marsha Singh, House of Commons, London SW1A 0AA
This site:
findyourmp.parliament.uk/
to find them and email them.
Here to find and contact your councillor:
www.bradford.gov.uk/bmdc/contact ... ouncillor/
Go on everyone, fire off a quick email. | |
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Incredibly craven response from the T&A today, I thought.
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| Quote ="vbfg"snip'"
I've no problems with the council chasing European money or other funding, I've done plenty of it & am doing so now. However there is no excuse for the contract with Westfield not having damages clauses for a breach of contract for delay &/or non-performance. It is in [uevery[/u standard construction contract. There is also the option for a bond(effectively an insurance the contractor pays to guarantee completion). I remember Rooney or Sutcliffe lambasting the council for these omissions. My view, as someone whose job it is to do this sort of thing for a living, is that the clauses were probably removed from the contract as an incentive to the contractor (or at their insistence). I would be sacked if I took such a gamble. In the current climate only a complete idiot would not have such clauses included. |
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| Quote ="tigertot"I've no problems with the council chasing European money or other funding, I've done plenty of it & am doing so now. However there is no excuse for the contract with Westfield not having damages clauses for a breach of contract for delay &/or non-performance. It is in [uevery[/u standard construction contract. There is also the option for a bond(effectively an insurance the contractor pays to guarantee completion). I remember Rooney or Sutcliffe lambasting the council for these omissions. My view, as someone whose job it is to do this sort of thing for a living, is that the clauses were probably removed from the contract as an incentive to the contractor (or at their insistence). I would be sacked if I took such a gamble. In the current climate only a complete idiot would not have such clauses included.'"
And there we have the crux of the problem. |
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After all this timeand the site still being a big, embarassing blot in the city, I'd seriously expect Westfield are on the verge of trying to move out, or are going t!ts up, so to speak.
If, that does mean there's scope for us to move into there, or we are indeed agreeing to move down there, what does that mean for Odsal, and the many years of tradition we're possibly leaving behind?
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No way under the sun will there be a stadium built down there.
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| Quote ="Adeybull"No way under the sun will there be a stadium built down there.'"
Thank God, for starters, I'd hesitate a guess at saying that area (the Westfield site), is simply too small the accomodate the plans the board presented to us at the fans forum. I see no reason why we should be turning our attention and efforts to move out of our proper home and moving into the city centre. |
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2002????????
