The examples would suggest that the current view of expansion is, at best flawed, at worst a disaster...

1. London Harlequins: After over 20 years the London club still cannot attract substantial support; it is only recently that they have contributed any players at a senior level. Ok they have fostered grass roots development at the junior level, but do they really deserve a franchise for SL?

2. Gateshead: this is a club in an area that's designated as a 'development area' and has been for numerous years. Apart from a foray in SL that resulted in a merger with Hull and breaking into NL1 last year the club is all but bankrupt.

3. Crusaders: after a promising 1/2 season on the field the wheels well and truly fell off when they lost 6 overseas signings to visa problems, causing major embarrassment all round and possibly resulting in a major fine (that might see them out of business); added to which they can't really find a home.

4. Catalan Dragons: heralded as THE SUCCESS. Looking under the covers though... this is in a strong RL area of France so does it really qualify as a 'development' project?

So the only success is in an area steeped in RL tradition - what are your thoughts - success or disaster?

There is two ways of looking at this.

1. We need to expand the game and persist with it. Nothing suddenly grows overnight and we need to get the game established in wider regions which have large resources to tap into. eg. London, Russia, USA etc

or

2. We have to accept that after 114 years of the game's existance, we have expanded as far as we're going to go (Australasia and pacific nations, and France) and that our game will remain largely regionalised. We enjoy it so is there any real need to spread it further?

Personally speaking I would go for the sceond option. Yes i think its the greatest game in the world but that doesn't mean the rest of the world will agree.

Therefore, I would like the money the RFL waste (on euro nations like Ireland, Italy, Lebonan, estonia etc) to go back into the communities and clubs already established (and i would include the south of france, wales and London in this).

It already costs me a fortune to travel to Catalans, Crusaders, Quins plus Wembley and Murrayfield.

I wouldn't mind a SL team in Cumbria as it's a Rugby League hotbed... and its the closest I am to rugby league since moving to Scotland 3 years ago!!!

SL need Sky or another broadcaster to double the money now given, that Sky pay double to Union because they class their sport as National with a better European and Global infrastucture, both Codes are slowly but surely coming together with the changes each make to the Laws of the game, its quite concievable that there will be one viable code in less than 50 years from now, so League will expand but not in the way you would wish it to.

^^^^^

Is my take on it

It's certainly conceivable. However, at the inception of Union professionalism - and even after the start of Super League - I can remember plenty of pundits opining that there would be one code (pretty much a Union takeover of League) within a decade. Long may we continue to push out the timeline!

If RL is going to take off outside its heartland, it really is 'now or never'. After three dreary autumn internationals for 'the other code' even the die hard Union fans that I am surrounded by here are taking a hard look at the code they follow and saying positive things about RL as a spectator sport.

Supposedly the IRB are in 'crisis' talks about how they can make Union more interesting to spectators. I suspect that a lot of the rule changes they will propose (uncontestested scrums, simplifying breakdowns) will make the game flow faster in the way that League does.

I sincerely hope the RFL can steal a march on the Union guys and get Union fans through the gates. Things like losing the CC from the BBC will not help, because most union fans watch this at least.

That's my rant over...

I think the main problem with expansion is satellite clubs. They're always going to struggle unless they're put in an area where there's already a strong desire for RL (like Catalands).

Crusaders proposed move to Wrexham would be beneficial for them as it brings them closer to the heartlands of the sport while maintaining a welsh presence in the game.

Quins have always had a problem with attracting fans, one that is not helped by the fact the current administration of the club don't seem to WANT to attract fans, at least that's what I've picked up from their message board.

TBH, I think the smartest way to expand the game is to look at the borders of the heartland and push out into these areas. There is oppotunity for expansion. I have no doubt about this. However, expansion cannot be rushed. Many people were jumping up and down over Crusaders this season "oh they shouldn't be in SL", "they're not competitive", "the world is flat" etc etc etc.

Personally, I felt that it was a little too soon for them to be promoted up to SL level. But, as I love the game, I was willing to support them.
Though, I would have prefered they had these 3 years in NL1 to build their fan base and establish themselves (after all, how can you attract fans if the team gets it's ass handed to it every week?).

But I will still support the idea of expansion because for the game to survive or even thrive we need an ever increasing player pool. More clubs mean increased catchment areas, schools playing the game, and that will have a knock on effect for the rest of the game in this country as we'll have more players to pick from and reduce our reliance on overseas imports which in turn may mean we start to grow and improve our international game as well.

As for overseas expansion, I'd suggest the US is ripe for the game. There is a similarity in rules between RL and Gridiron and the fast paced style of RL would appeal to an american audience. There's also the fact that RL requires very little in the way of equipment to actually play and the way you get a sport to be popularised in the states is if it's played in schools and colleges. You've also a potentally large player pool of failed gridiron players as players drop off the pyramid all the way from high school to college to pro leagues. But again, this would require long term planning.

No quick fixes will improve our sport. Only considered and well thought out planning and development will do that.

Personally, I would welcome one game of "Rugby", so long as the new game kept some of the key elements of league. The 6 (or how ever many would be decided) tackles would be the main one for me.

I wouldn't be opposed to line outs, reviewing the number of players or the union scrum for example.

Simplification of both codes to fit a new game would also attract more new fans IMO. A huge barrier to getting people to watch our (and their) game is the complexity of the rules.

Oh and could someone change the thread title to the correct spelling.....it's bugging the hell out of me!!

Each to their own. You would not get me to Odsal, or even to switch on my TV, to watch a unified code.

the problem with the idea of the combined code is that you'd still have pureists on both sides who'd not want to watch the new game and so you'd end up diluting the game from 2 camps to 3.

Even if that was THE ONLY game around.

I agree that 3 different games would be a non starter, I'm talking about a single game.

Keep it in summer and we would, ultimatley, end up with a huge product to sell.

Yes. My summer sporting requirements would be met by Cricket - and since 1996 I haven't had a winter sport to follow.

But it wouldn't be, there's no way you could completely wipe out both codes in favour of a 3rd

Nail 1 - on head.
But this doesn't mean there may be sound business reasons for making exceptions; for example, I am convinced it is absolutely essential, for many reasons, that we have a London club, and those who slag it off usually know a big fat Zero about the huge strides our code has made at junior and lower levels in the Capital, on the back of SL, and which continue. Of course, this is the sort of thing you need to understand is a long game. Most critics want SUCCESS - NOW or deem it an instant failure. Personally I think we are very much best served by developing the game in London. Yes Harlequins itself is a worry but the problem is more can we afford to run it, not "should" we run it. Certainly, it would be a travesty to risk what huges strides there have been in the Capital, after all the effort we have put in.


True. Like a pool of petrol, it is far easier to slowly spread out from a strong centre, if only because there are already people at the fringes of the pool, who have a strong interest and may already participate and/or watch clubs within the pool. But this was a quandary that the RFL couldn't win. ESL had to be just that. Slow expansion, 35 miles N/S/E/W at a time, was not what was desired.

But yes, preaching to the wholly or partially converted is very obviously a far easier proposition than virgin soil.


Well it may seem like that to some, but anyone with an ounce of sense isn't going to actually [ibelieve[/i that the Quins RL management don't [iwant[/i bigger crowds? Are they? I mean, can anyone give a single, remotely sensible reason why that would be? Barking theories aren't any help. (I know it's not your theory!)


As I've indicated, I agree with your 'borders' theory but it isn't seemingly what is wanted. So what DO the powers that be want? I have no clue. I have asked the question, both rhetorically and directly, for many years now. Answer is there none. What IS the aim of ESL? One club per country playing in an ESL Euroleague? Or an English SL but with half the clubs or more from abroad? Or what? A "conference" System? Two or three SL divisions with clubs from different countries in regional comps?

What I am trying to say is it is all well and good giving the French game a leg up (as we undoubtedly have with Catalans, and now Toulouse) but where are we going with this? Do we want 2 or 3 French clubs in SL? What of English clubs - we can't increase the number of games. What of future clubs in wherever - Spain, Germany, whatever we have in mind? What's the long term plan?

Maybe there isn't one. My own belief is that there is no real plan, and that the RFL are pretty much flying the future of SL by the seat of their pants, and without much of a grip on the controls at that. I wish i was wrong - but if there WAS a 5 or 10 year plan, then shouldn't we all - the major stakeholders in the sport - be in on it?


To an extent, I agree, but I think the RFL allowed themselves to be hoodwinked into thinking Crusaders had a better plan and plans for a better team than in reality they did. The debacles of the no-visa players, and now the ludicrous move from South Wales, suggest that.

So yes, I agree Wrexham as a base for Crusaders may well have a better short term prospect - but that would be getting a SL place by fraud. The RFL were convinced they were getting a SOUTH WALES team! If they are going to up and move to within 30 miles or so of Widnes, then that is clearly bang out of order, and I'm amazed (well actually not even surprised if I'm truthful) that the RFL haven't swallowed their pride and told them to fsck off with that idea and apply for C2 if that's what they plan to do. If we end up with Crusaders playing next door to Widnes then Widnes MUST be admitted to SL as otherwise Wrexham Crusaders have conned a place at Widnes' expense.

Either way, the RFL will be made to look utter planks if they allow Crusaders to stay in SL as a reward for torpedoing the RFL's South Wales dream.


Nail 2. Head.

I agree, it does seem that, when it comes to expansion, the RFL are just winging it. Which I think is a mistake. One that the RFL have already made with Gateshead and Paris and seemingly one they have not learned from

Me too. I'd hate to think of my hard earned cash going to the rahrahs!!
I doubt it would ever happen at amateur level so I'd just watch that instead.

RL will only survive if it can attract more money into the game. This can only be done by expanding, there simply isn't the money to continue if the game restricts itself to the heartlands.

but that has to be balanced against the long term.

I'm thinking long term the game either expands or dies.

And I'm thinking short-term the game cannot afford to expand (or even maintain the status quo ante).

So we have a classic Catch-22.

And its ALL down to money - or lack of.

Anyone got any answers?

Well, RAB raised £1K just like that for the player fund.

Maybe another whip-round to save the game itself?

When I lived in Bradford I cannot think of one school which played rugby league, and I believe that is why recently on this board very few Bradford born players were found apart from recent years. Even Jack Kitching the only Bradford born player of the forties started with Bradford RU. I now live in S Wales and both my grandsons play League at school, one at Caerphilly and the other in Bridgend. The recent Europe cup win was basically a S Wales side. There are now at least a dozen sides in the summer competition and I see Blackwood in Gwent will play for the first time in the Challenge cup. Yes, the Super League side as been a disaster, but don't throw out the baby with the bath water. A very strong side could be made up to play in the National League without imports.
I do hope the clubs vote for a Welsh side in the National League this season, they won't regret it.
Incidentally over 6 rugby league stars were born in the street I live in, the last being John Devereux. In the village itself there were three Rugby leagueLions, and every Rugby League competition has seen one of our players from the vill age a winners medal. Only last year one of our club record holders at Halifax had his record of goals for a season broken. Our nearest RU ground is Swansea so local players round here enjoy the RL competition

Very interesting and encouraging, that. Definitely requires a

All the Bradford secondary schools play in the power gen schools cup.