Roby was fortunate that he didnt have to do it alone , he was understudy to the King and so although he was playing first team he was still very much learning and developing

Exactly, he was gently eased into the side, not thrown in at the deep end

Jones wasn't eased in last season. So why assume Speakman needs easing in this season?

Showing your lack of understanding again. People develop at different rates both physically and mentally it's not 1 rule fits all. The difference between playing in the centre and second row to playing in a pivot position like 6, 7 or 9 is immense.

You've just agreed with me. That's exactly what I was saying. One rule doesn't fit all. So why assume that Speakman isn't ready just because he is young? That appears to be what is being done here.

But you are assuming he is just like Jones. We all assume, but the coaches will be actually able to say where they are and what they can do. If the coaches assessment is that Speakman requires drip feeding into the team, that's based on them knowing the player not just making a wild guess about what type of player he is.

However I still maintain that when Cunningham retired, why was the club not looking to recruit a hooker? Speakman would have been in the under 15's so obviously we had no youth product ready at hooker, so we should have brought one in.

I'd say if our big pack was getting the quality service that Speakman looked like he could provide, they could make things comfortable for him even if he is a bit tender.

I'd say that overall this would be just as effective as playing a guy who's more physically equipped, but has less talent for dummy half distribution who could look better as an individual, but hamper the pack slightly with inferior service.

But , in Brown we trust. If we get a result today, fair play to him.

Quality post, Chief - and I completely agree.

The assumption is based on the fact that Saints have signed a hooker on loan and are putting him straight into the squad for today's game against wigan. That alone justifies the assumption that NB doesn't think Speakman is ready for regular first team action, as a teenager playing in arguably the most important position on the field.

If it looks like a dog, and barks like a dog, chances are, it's a dog.

No I wasn't. I was positing that one player wasn't introduced gently so why should another automatically need to be. My point is exactly that each player is different, and I have made that same point many times over the years, even when others were disagreeing with me! But until we actually see Speakman play in a full match then we won't know how he copes and nor will Brown. Percival, who isn't the biggest bloke in the world, was thrown in for the full 80 against Leeds, who are the champions, so I don't see why Speakman couldn't be given a go against Wigan. Ultimately it is always sink or swim for a new player once they are out there on the pitch.

You say justifies. I guess we will see whether his decision was justified in time. We can't possibly know yet whether it was.

It comes down to position, its as simple as that. Percival played centre for 80mins against Leeds and did a fantastic job. There is a big difference between playing on the left edge and facing Ablett than playing hooker, defending in the middle of the park and facing the likes of Bailey, Leuleuai and Peacock. Hooker is by far the more challenging position and if NB, with the input of some of he games best junior coaches, doesn't think he's ready, then we have to accept that. For me, it illustrates there is a problem with the system (lack of u21/u23 team) as per my previous post.

I agree on both counts. On the second point I would add 'alas'.

I agree, real shame but Im sure Speakman will develop into a great understudy for Roby, just best not to rush him, otherwise it will do more harm than good. Same with Percival, came in, won MOM on his debut, but then we haven't seen him since.

Percival is playing today. I've put a link to the teamsheet in another thread.

One thing I did consider was, if Speakman isn't ready for first team action then how is he ready to play in a Championship side? They're all still fully grown blokes who play at pace and with aggression, etc. So is Speakman now not playing at all?

Can't comment on Gaskell but you have it wrong about Howarth - certainly wouldn't listen to the idiot comments of Ave it. He was good at Wakey and let's be honest in recent times playing for Wakey has been like playing for Brisbane compared to Salford. Read these comments and you may feel different, I think you have just signed a gem, not a world beater but a gem all the same. viewtopic.php?f=33&t=547275&tsmp=1364559199

Can't comment on Gaskell but you have it wrong about Howarth - certainly wouldn't listen to the idiot comments of Ave it. He was good at Wakey and let's be honest in recent times playing for Wakey has been like playing for Brisbane compared to Salford. Read these comments and you may feel different, I think you have just signed a gem, not a world beater but a gem all the same. viewtopic.php?f=33&t=547275&tsmp=1364559199

Vastman, we seen him play week in week out for the past season and a bit, you haven't. He's not a bad rugby player but in no way shape or form a hooker.

He was for us and did OK - many fans think they know a players true position and usually they don't. They also don't take into account that players grow and then thrive in an improved environment, it happens all the time when coaches sign "disappointing players" only for them to become crowd favourites. If Brown and Howarth are happy then so be it. Personally I believe with a good footballing brain which he has in a good team which Saints are he will do just fine at hooker. He's not JR but few are however that doesn't mean he can't do a very good job.

I think you may be right.

Wow, not giving the lad much of a chance there.

Howarth will work hard and do all the basic stuff. Just don't expect many runs, line breaks or ball skills. He's a squad player at best but will offer no dynamism at all.

Maybe. He worked hard but he is slow when compared to Roby and with Wilkin and Wello in the halves we desperately needed some pace. I also think it was around his area where we leaked a few breaks but I would have to check that I may be doing him a disservice. With Robes we could guarantee he would do a massive tackle count in every match and we need that kind of tackler with so many young players on the pitch.

But I did say 'I think' and it was based upon the first half performance.

As I say, he worked hard and it was a tough call for him to be dropped into a new team on derby day, so I respect him greatly for the effort he put in on our behalf.

He's only just signed. Roby is quick but part of that is the fact he has played in that team all his career. It's not so easy when every player is a stranger and every team move was learnt only yesterday.

I wouldn't claim he s a Roby and I feel he's more a 13 but he will improve and I suspect you will like him - he's also a very brave tackler.

Gaskell's just scored, I think he's playing centre.

Yes. He's playing centre, he scored and apparently played very well.

I wonder why our genius coach didn't think of playing Gaskell at centre and, say, moving Turner to 6 (if he doesn't want Gaskell at 6). At least Turner has played for the England Knights at 6, and did well from all accounts, and has pace and creativity and all those things that Wello - bless his cotton socks - doesn't have.