That's probably why the way they have been announced is so low-key and almost apologetic.

I would imagine Wellens & Gardner are both re-signed on a lot less than their previous contracts and will be used as cover players, which could prove useful if we have injuries similar to last season and are possibly still better than other cover players we could have signed (players like Howarth)

I think it will be interesting to see how Lance goes at 6 alongside Walsh, it will be the first time since he arrived that we have an actual #7 gfor him to play alongside with a good organising and kicking game. If this allows Lance to play as a running #6, or use both him and Lomax as wider runners I think it could be a good move, if not I think we will see Wheeler there for the 5 games he is fit for. Again, unless a top class #6 comes available, I'd rather stick with what we have and look at bringing somebody in for 2015 who is what we need, than be stuck with somebody else for the sake of buying them.

Other than that, glad to see Makinson, Swift & Jones given starting shirts after their performances last year, and think they will also benefit from having Walsh in there (if his kicking game from last season in NRL is anything to go by will lay a lot of tries on for them). also think our forward pack is as good as, if not better, than any other in the league. The depth is great with Masoe, Amor, LMS, Walmsley, Laffranchi, Clough, Beaumont, Wilkin, Flanagan, Soliola and Manu all competing for places in the 17, and the likes of Greenwood, Walker etc as back up with SL experience from last year. For the first time in a good few years, I think we should realistically be challenging to win trophies again with what we have got.

Does "retained for the 2014 season" mean they're on a 1 year contract? I could live with it if so ...

I think lance will go ok next year.
I'm happy with the squad which is the first time I can say that for a while.
Wello is gonna have to perform well to keep a bench spot.
Bring on 2014

COYS

Sad thing is I doubt it. I just cant see what value he adds to the bench, he is a terrible halfback, way too slow to play in the outside backs and we are not short of proven forwards. He gives us a bit of experienced cover for Lomax but tbh I'd rather see us use someone with pace

I said the same thing last year. What's the point of having wello on the bench when he can only play fullback? He's awful at and other position.

It kills me to say but I wouldn't pick him at all. He's just a waste of a cap space.

I think Lance will surprise this year, what a great half back pairing it is.

It will certainly help him. No matter what people say about Lance, he's not come here just for a holiday, he's come to play but it's not just worked out yet.

I think you will be the team to beat this year, recruited really well. Especially in the halfs with plenty of depth in your squad.

tbh anything above terrible would surprise me in a good way. What worries me is our lack of cover for Walsh. Wheeler is a 6 by trade as is Charnock I believe so that leaves us with Wilkin again

There isn't all that much difference in 6 and 7 with the way we play. Therefore if Charnock was deemed good enough to step in at 6 then I'm sure he could play 7 too.

I take your point but what I was meaning was an organising half. Traditionally a 7 role , is Charnock that man? I dunno.

Hard to tell off that one game v Salford as I don't tend to see the u19s games. I see your point though.

Why do people get so caught up in squad numbers? It means nothing and is now just a money maker for the club to sell the number and name of a player.

Being number one or number twenty has no bearing on what the first 17 will be.

Isn't he just. I'm kind of over the Wellens thing now. The club has shown once again it doesn't really run itself as a competitive sports team and that sentimentality rules over winning trophies every time.

Wellens staying as a player is one thing, but him actually playing is another, and a pretty unacceptable one. Wello played pretty much every game this season and that simply cannot happen next season. It didn't matter too much this year as we didn't have the pack or half backs to compete for trophies. Next season with the signings of Masoe and Walsh, that in theory might be different. If we're again going to be playing with 16 players every week, it could well negate the improvements we have made. Putting aside my playful vendetta against Wello, he isn't as good as Lomax, Makinson or Swift at fullback, he's an absolutely terrible halfback and hooker and he's not as good as any of the forwards. So if he's a permanent fixture in the 17 just because of his influence over McManus and Rush behind the scenes, it's another example of them not caring about trophies. Personally I'm disappointed in Wello himself, there comes a time when a professional sportsman has to show pride in himself and his performances and step down. Wello was awful last season, offering nothing, and he has no obvious role to play in the side yet he's still willing to take a shirt every week.

I only hope he's trained and worked on his new role and found the determination to prove people wrong for 2014 but with all the will in the world I just can't see what role he can play for us.

What position can he actually play other than fullback?

But he isn't.. He knows as well as we do that he won't be in the 17 every week. I can see why the club have made the decision to give him another year and I agree with it to a certain extent. Next season we will have a relatively new set of players with high expectations, and his experience could be beneficial from a squad point of view. The way he trains, the way he conducts himself, his knowledge of the club and how to deal with certain situations, his experience; these little things aren't a bad thing to have in the squad. Anyone who knows him or has spoken to him will know that if he didn't play at the club he would be watching from the terraces, and although some will take that lightly, that sort of attitude means something to me. He knows what it's like to be successful at Saints and not many of this current side know what that takes. He won't be in the 17 every week as you appear to be assuming, and rightly so, but I honestly think he has something to offer. Others will disagree I'm sure, but that's just my opinion.

Does he? Given how this season went, it seems he has to be in the 17. There were games where he didn't come on until the hour mark, which is an utter waste of a bench spot and there were plenty of games at the back end of the season where we had plenty of options. Wello should be coaching now. As you mention he's got a wealth of experience and is committed to the club and would be a good influence on the younger players. But he has absolutely nothing to offer on the field. He should look at the likes of Cunningham and Sculthorpe. They could have stayed around for longer but chose not to, seeing that their road had ended.

I have to agree with Saddened here. It's as though the coaching staff simply HAVE to accommodate him somehow. At times last season, and I don't mean this disrespectfully, he looked like a desperate old man clinging on to his career.

The captaincy issue is the biggest example of what I'm referring to. Watching him lead the team on to the field and then run back off to take his place on the bench was unbelievably cringeworthy. Starting every game with our captain on the bench is embarrassing.

First and foremost we need a new captain. Someone who will start most games. Wilkin, Roby or Soliola for me.

Secondly Wellens should only be in the 17 when injuries hit. If you look at our squad numbers 1-17 and replace Wellens with Walmsley then there is simply no argument for Wellens replacing any of those players.

Agree and disagree.

The analysis of Wellens is spot on. Absolute lunacy to retain him.

However legends get treated in one of two ways at Saints they are either pampered or ignored.

Cunningham and Sculthorpe have been accommodated and pampered to the nth degree.

Joynt and Long have been largely ignored.

Wellens just wants his place on the Saints gravy train. Can't really blame him as such other than being
a little greedy and self centred.

The club have set a precedent and their lack of backbone and obsession with accommodating him is the issue.

It happens in the more junior ranks as well. Wheeler is excused, pampered and accommodated, Gaskell was hung out to dry , and so was Foster to a degree.

Flash will struggle to make the 17 each week but, barring full back play, he's better at everything than Wello.
Madness if he's getting picked I front if the likes of Flash, Thompson et al.

I think the fact Wellens has lost the number 1 squad number suggests he won't be considered a regular next season. If we'd have been full strength last season (e.g. Perry and Flanagan fit) he may well not have made the bench. I doubt he will next season as the depth of our squad looks to be stronger.

Wellens should be a bit part player next season mainly covering for injury, nothing more.

I agree with you but the trouble is that what SHOULD happen with Wellens isn't always what DOES happen.

I think it just means he's playing from the bench every week, like he did for most of this season. Time will tell.

Again, that certainly isn't the plan at this moment in time. If it was I would agree with you. He isn't a better full back than Lomax, and it isn't fair on Wellens to ask him to play in the back-row; weather that be from the start or off the bench.

Your thoughts towards him next year are based upon the fact that you believe that he will be in the 17 every week, which he won't be.