exactly

Not to mention the fact that a large proprtion of our support are kids!

who probably haave more spare cash than their parents!

Getting most saints "fans" to cough up £17 at the turnstiles is hard enough.

Real Rugby League Fans! not those that are purely parochial! want to see every new ground project Succeed! be it a club you support or not!

What is frustrating is the number of promises and announcements by the current St Helens Board which never seem to materialise and that supporters are not kept fully informed.

But is that anything new? No! the success St Helens has had as a club and what have we (someone born in the Town) to show for it, plus all the Sky money, nothing much! it has never been run as a top professional club an d the current Board seem little better.

I'm not sure you are quite up to date, the latest info from the club was no more than a month or two ago and they were going through the tender process. no news is no news at this point.

As for SKY money, well we've only had the same as Quins have had we seem to have done a lot more than Quins have done.

Is the you Sean McGuire?

Sadfish, if you are Happy with the progress and the way the Sky money has been spent by St Helens, fair enough on you! but I'm not that easily pleased and Ski my comment was on behalf of myself, born in St Helens and the reason why I no longer support the team like all youngsters I wanted to play for as a kid.

this is rediculous. the sky money doesn't even cover the wages buddy.

at ANY SL club.

as others have said, how much do you think sky give us?
from memory the entire deal was about £86 million over 10 yrs between 14 clubs = not a lot

I appreciate your frustration re the apparent silence on the new Saints Ground project but I'm sure when there is news, then it will be shared with the speccies.

Regarding the rest of your post, well that's cr4p. Sts supporters have had almost unbroken success on the field since the start of Super League. We have also had the privilage of watching some of the greatest players ever to have played for the club during this period at a time of full time professionalism and the costs of maintaining a squad.

This has been funded partly by SKY, partly by the commercial department's work and partly by the generosity of our Chairman (who has put in excess of £1 million) and the club's directors.

Within the next 18 months or so a new Sts Stadium will be built and will be owned by St. Helens RLFC.

There is not a fan of any other club, or official for that matter, that wouldn't have swapped places with us since 1996 and you say we have nothing to show for the Sky money and the club hasnt been run as a top professional club?

mmm.....................................a riddiculous statement imho.

I remember watching Sts pre '96 and there's no comparison to the quality of the product, or the staus of the club now.

Okay IF Sky money is nothing at all, what would St Helens and others do if they withdraw, by your assumptions nothing would change, well that I see as a joke! as many clubs would either have no choice to go back to being part time or go bust! Gate money will not cover wage bills.

The problem is with many clubs and this is my criticism in the good days of money coming into the game far too much was pushed into wages rather than infrastructure, Knowsley Road could have been made into a superb stadium.

Yes the game has improved under Super League, but also it has gone backwards in some ways and that is being said by so many these days, who do not find it as exciting, the way the kick is used on the last play the ball.

It would be a sad world if we all agreed on Everything! there is plenty I don't agree with the Club I have backed and supported now for many years, the good thing in the South is more schools are playing the game than ever, a reversal of here in the games home territory, but for some reason we are not turning them into supporters? I wish I had all the answers!

The sky money isnt nothing at all, but it doesn't cover the wages as you said.

Knowlsey Road would have always been too costly to update, and they already have problems with the fact its in the middle of a housing area when it comes to games and noise level and line of sight and also the size.

Most clubs rely on their fans to invest the most money, either via tickets sales, merchandise sales or corporate sales.

in a turn over of say £5 milllion less than 25% is sky money.

If we removed TV money completely, then we would have to cut the playing staff wages by 25%, thats doesn't mean the club would no longer be professional simply that we paid out less wages.

Sadfish, that is your opinion, I did an Australian RL Management training course with the great late Peter Deacon, in an attempt to drag the British game up to date, Peter was the man behind the revival of The Bulls and then played such an important part in Rugby Union and a time at Wolves.

Ticket sales will never cover wages in RL and neither will merchandise, if you want to think Sky money is nothing keep thinking that way! why do Clubs have the debts they have??

no one is saying it is nothing, but its not an all all nothing argument!

I knew him too, what point are you trying to make here?



I never said it would. You were the one who said that "Okay IF Sky money is nothing at all, what would St Helens and others do if they withdraw, by your assumptions nothing would change, well that I see as a joke! as many clubs would either have no choice to go back to being part time or go bust! [iGate money will not cover wage bills[/i."

Saints debts have been ongoing since 1997, and account in the main for poor accounting and operating ventures that have not been fully costed.

Incidentally both Wigans debts after a decade of glory and the RFL debts without a large SKY deal accounted for over £10million prior to 1997. Now neither have debts (of any amount) and the RFL are in clear profit.

Rugby League clubs arent in the game to make a profit, they are in it to win trophies. SKY will come and go, we where professional for many many years prior to advertising and tv money became involved, it would happen again in the future.

Many people knew Peter, my point is that I worked with Peter in RL, I know what I am talking about when it comes to running of a RL Club and its administration, Peter got me to do the Australian RL Management Course with him to try and bring our great game out of the dark ages.

It is clear Sadfish only you have and know all the answers, criticism for me is hopefully constructive to try and improve my home town club or any other, if it comes to coaching of a RL team, you will never see my knock as I am not qualified and don't know all the facts.

I don't have all the answers but as a shareholder, a member or the independent fans bodies, and someone who meets with the club regularly for the heritage society I would like to think I'm pretty close to whats going on even if I am at arms length as I am, but I certainly would never know the answers and I certainly don't want to know the goings on day to day at the club, its not in great shape, but I think its in the best hands possible.

Sadfish, we should accept to agree to disagree, I respect everyone has their right to personal opinions, I can only ever use my professional training and knowledge.

Best,
John

Does that "professional training and knowledge" include the slightly odd statements you've been making in this thread?

I've no idea what we are agreeing to disagree about you seem to have limited to no knowledge of the Saints for a start.

You seem quick to judge Sadfish??

Well all my family have supported St Helens, Dad took me from the age of 6, I played later for what was called the Saints Junior Supporters Team, after finishing playing, I managed an under 16 team in the town. I rated Geoff Sutcliffe highly as the then Club Secretary and I spoke with him a lot and spent time with him, it was a career I would have loved. I did have an interview with Maurice L and spent time at Wilderspool, but I ended up at the St Helens Reporter and then all of my career in commercial radio. In my late 20's I was chosen to be a Lancashire Youth Selector and then Great Britain.

I still hold my hands up and admit I do not know everything about rugby league and I tend to as I was taught keep my mouth shut! but I will express opinions about what I do know facts about, though I tend not to judge others! who I don't know!!!!!!!

Thanks for the CV, but why?

And this has what to do with the stadium site, new stadium and the current running of the club?

Sadfish! let's leave it at that, you just seem stubborn! not sure if you think you are being clever? you are never going to listen to others opinions, or you are not able to?

I have expressed my opinion about the new stadium and site, all the St Helens public is being given is promises and not a lot of action!

The running of the club, the arrival of a new chairman seemed to be a new dawn, from the old board, but it has quickly turned a little cloudy! a lot of huff and puff, I'm allowed my opinion which is objective unlike your Red Coloured Biased Glasses View!

Even at the Quins RL site we have some who feel the words, site admin makes them Emperor or Knowledge!