And this is where a lot of us differ.

a) It won't see us bring the trophy home because Warrington and Wigan are miles better than us, but it could see us progress quite far - albeit ultimately ending up failures yet again.

More importantly though -

b) I pay my money to enjoy my evening. I pay to be entertained. Whilst we all accept that sometimes you have to grind out the odd result to achieve your goals, when that starts to happen every single week, then I cease to sympathise with the attitude.

I've seen Saints teams lose many more games in a season than this but enjoyed them much more. Winning isn't everything to me. If all I cared about was the result then I'd watch the game on the BBC score updates page.

I was that bored that I watched about twenty minutes of the game on Friday. I probably spent more time looking at my phone. If it wasn't for modern technology, I'd have been forced to watch it all and that would have been a punishment too far.

i really don't know why some of you on this forum, bother to go watching saints.. All you ever do is complain, you would probably complain if you won the lotto, if you do win it please don't buy saints off mac, we would all be slitting our throats reading the chairmans comments in the programme

Oh. My. God.

Compared to the previous game he has a point!

I think they truely are defense and error reduction minded coaches. It went wrong against Wakey and so they went back to reducing errors and making the defense solid.

In a way we really need a 3rd coach to go with these 2. These 2 can work on defense and a Sean Long type to give some ideas going forwards.

It's always a balance between chancing your arm and accepting that you will turn the ball over more often and playing it so tight that it's more like 1980' England Rugby Union where territory and possesion are everything.

You're right, of course. But for an all St Helens coaching team, St Helens chairman (and a St Helens captain!) to endorse our current playing style is sacrilegious. You'd think they'd understand as well as any fan...

Both Wello's and Eamon's programme columns made me laugh as well. McManus clearly actually believes this squad is capable of winning trophies and that it was Royce's fault we didn't.

Wello on the other hand used his column to try and justify his contract extension. He mentioned Warrington's old guard of Briers, Morley and Hodgson getting new deals and hinted that there are no talented players available anywhere in the world so why not keep them? He so closely paraphrased a couple of people on here that I'm convinced that one of the pro-Wellens camp on here is actually Paul himself, all I need to do now is work out which one.

I can't wait to read Eamon's programme notes at the start of next season if we've still not signed a halfback, a prop or sorted the fullback spots out. He'll no doubt pay hommage to Wello's scintilating attacking prowess and call him the best fullback in the world like he did earlier in the year. Meanwhile the ambitious clubs will share the trophies and we'll no doubt sack Nathan Brown before the end of his second year.

I'm Paul Wellens.

To be fair, what else would you expect them to say? "We've made a series of monumental cock-ups in coaching appointments the last few years, are in a mess because of it and are now stuck with a limited youth team coach who can only play 1-dimensional, ultra dull, safety first rugby as a result, but just keep turning up and paying us to see this **** anyway please"?

Fair point. There's plenty of 'typical RL player cliché interview' ways to say that we were below par at the weekend though.

"Wasn't the best game for the fans but we did the job" etc. etc.

He could only say what he said if he genuinely believed it. And that's worrying.

I don't think its Saints that is the problem. The powers in their infinite wisdom are allowing the ruck to be slowed down. I believe in order to bring us closer to the Aussies.

Personally however, if its going to lead to seasons of dull games I say sod the internationals because its ruining a good sport.

Saints have just had to adapt as our main method of play has been made ineffective, by changes in the refing of games.

I seriously was contemplating whether to renew my season ticket this year because to be frank, not many games have been worth the entrance fee.




Well personally telling us how it is and how they are going to do something next season to fix it, may make the decision to renew my season ticket easier. But if we are going to defend this brand of Rugby well, the heart says yes but the head say keep the money.

Well to be fair LMS was the only one who looked up for the game.

I agree to an extent, but at the same time, our style of play should the ruck be sped back up would clearly be based around Roby ripping slow-retreating defenders to shreds around the play the ball. I don't think it would solve the problem of how unimaginitive we are and how unable we are to break down opposition defences close to the line. It would however result in a faster more open spectacle with gaps on the field which is the game we all grew up watching. Can see both sides really.

Your reactions are too quick. You responded in 21 minutes, it would take Wello that long to bend down to pick his laptop up.

Forget anything else at the end of the day I support Saints. The last few years with this attempt to bring us in line with the Aussies have seen the spectacle that is RL in this country dwindle. I never was a big fan of watching NRL and it pains me to see us trying to emulate them. At the end of the day when you have lots of people leaving a stadium after having paid good money walk out unfulfilled 'BTW that does not mean winning' its just not good for saints or the game as a whole.

The thing is balance. Super league was too quick when we had Roby/KC/Higham ravaging sides up the middle. They then spotted this and went far too far the other way. Teams like Wigan under Maguire and Warrington under Smith get so many men into the tackle that they can slow it down to 10 second play the balls, meaning the defensive line is well and truly set and that there is no momentum at all.

Super League just doesn't have the calibre of creative player to have the game as slow as it is now. The few close games in semis and finals are won by which side is the most aggressive and the side that makes the least errors and kicks better. As a viewing spectacle the NRL is great only because the calibre of player is so much higher. Super League is, on the whole, incredibly boring to watch now as the standard is so low, there are so many errors and penalties and the play the balls are so drawn out.

I agree with everything well except for the NRL been exciting, up until 2-3 years ago I though super league was a better spectator sport. However its a long time since I watched the NRL so maybe it has picked up.

I find the NRL is easy to watch because even though it's slower than Super League has been typically, it's so much cleaner around the ruck. They play the game in a more crisp way, play the balls are done properly, it's slowed naturally if the defending team wins the collision, it's quick if the ball carrier does and the basic skills are always executed more sharply and you see less basic errors. The NRL sides pretty much always have good kicking games, so whilst it's still defensively minded and 5 drives and a kick like Super League has become, it's done to a higher standard. There is also a much wider spread of elite players, it seems pretty much every side in the NRL has a 'wow' player, where in Super league the better players don't stay at clubs like Wakefield, London, Salford, Cas etc they move on to the big clubs very quickly.

Bulldogs - Barba, Sea Eagles - Lyon, Storm - Slater, Rabbitos- Inglis, Cowboys - Thurston, Broncos - Thaiday, Raiders - Dugan, Sharks - Gallen, Knights - Uate, Titans - Bird, Eels - Hayne, Dragons - Morris, Roosters - Pearce, Warriors - Johnson, Tigers - Marshall, Panthers - Jennings.

I bet it would be pretty embarassing by comparison to list the Super League clubs like that.

It's helped by the fact that it's a pretty level playing field, any of the teams can make a push for the top, sure some teams are ''bigger'' than others but it's not a HUGE difference like we see in Super League.

And you think all Super League is 5 drives and a kick, did you see Wakefield and Widnes the other day? Couldn't even get through five drives!

Is your girlfiend Mike Rush?

Two great wins, away from home, against the two "top" teams in the league, both off the back of great defense. Where did that come from? I reckon it came from games like the London one, maybe not the most exciting, but perfect preparation for the big games to come. Why is rush our coach? Because he has set a course to get us to OT. We aren't there yet, but he's given it a chuffing good go.

Have to admit that that result shocked the bloody life out of me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think it's shocking how anyone can question the job mike Rush has done this year. Is sole job was to get us in a postion to put a play off run together and he did that, we then beat Warrington in their own back yard and only one game from old Trafford.

The guy has no top level coaching experince, took over a team with zero confidence but he's still bagged for "not playing young players" and " playing boring rugby"

Well done Mike and KC, you've done a terrific job.

We have been to the playoffs every season since, when? 2006? Or did we get into the playoffs in 2005? I can't remember. Anyway, obviously since 2006 at the latest.

In that time we have had Anderson, Potter, Simmons and now Rush as coaches. Clearly our ability to play play off rugby is not simply a coaching matter otherwise we wouldn't be so consistent across so many coaches.

IMO it's a mentality. What the players showed tonight was what they generally haven't showed this season: a desire to play. I think the last time we saw Saints play anything near that kind of rugby was against Leeds at Langtree Park. I feel like I've been duped out of my season ticket after the trugid rot I've had to watch. I might not bother paying out next year and just turn up for the play offs, like Saints have done.