We need some players in the back line that can do something with tue ball in hand out of nothing. The just ain't any flair or anyone with the ability to make something happen and that's why we can't beat a top team.

Other than that 10 min spell when Jamie scored his two tries, I was thinking we could play for a week and not score.

The game against the pies in Cardiff, the game at DW and the semi was tight but we can't pull anything out of the bag anymore as we've no special players in the backs.

I'm not saying our backs are rubbish but IMO not good enough against top teams in big games and until we invest in some good attacking backs I don't think we will win anything for many years.

Cant agree with you St P. I think our backs are as good as the pies. Who would I want from their backs - none with the exception of bambi.
The problem with our backs yesterday was that - as Simmons said - we were too lateral = predictable and I blame Leon for this. Shenton and Makinson got no ball whatsover and if they had have done the goons defence would have struggled to contain us.

When we scored our tries it was the only two times in the game we actually tried to do something different. Try 1 was the result of a shenton break on our right and try 2 was a result of robes going for it down the middle.

I couldn't agree more abour Shenton, he was very lazy for the first Wigan try. I would have expected more urgency from him with it being a semi, if you can bare it then watch it again, he just casualy ambles across and doesn't put in any effort at all to close them down. With ball in hand he's a good player but he's not what you would call an X factor back, thats the problem with your backline is it doesn't have much X factor in the three quarters like it used to have down the years.

If you comapre this current backline to what saints have had in the past then its very average at best, Wellens and Meli are past their best, Shenton is average, Foster is ok but he's far from the finished article.

I'd say you need a new fullback (need to see how Hohaia goes), 2 better centres and at least one very dangerous winger (Broughton or Tom Briscoe maybe), a new scrum half, another prop to replace Graham, a classy back rower with pace in the Lee Gilmour mould, a better impact hooker or starting hooker and use Roby as the impact after 15 - 20 mins) and a classy loose forward, down the years you have had some very classy 13's.

So you're saying we need 9 new players? Why dont we just get a full new team...

Are you saying you don't ?

I didn't say 9 new players anyway, i said 2 new centres, 1 winger with genuine X factor, a scrum half, 1 more prop to replace the big hole that James Graham will leave, a second rower in the mould of Lee Gilmour thats a dangerous runner with pace and a loose forward. A new hooker to either be an impact hooker or a starting hooker then use Roby as the impact.

I make that 8, so you don't reckon you need to make changes to the positions above that ive mentioned ? Leave it as it is then, that will be one less threat for silverware for a few years.

We certainly don't need 9 players but I do think we need a good attacking centre that has ability to beat a man and a classy clever attacking halfback ike rangi chase.

We don't have the goto players in the backs.

You also said a fullback that makes 9

Thats talking as it stands today 07/08/2011 which is why i also said after in brackets "(need to see how Hohaia goes) which means see how well he does first before saying you need a fullback".

Ahh I get you!

I'm not to sure what we need. I want to know what Royce is going to next season and whether we are going to sign anyone else.

At the moment I'd say we need to replace Wellens, but that may be with Hohaia next season, despite Royce saying he'll be 7. I can't see it happening though. We need a centre better than Meli, but who could we actually sign at the moment? The only thing we could do is wish for Wheeler to come back and work wonders for us, but when is he actually back? I think our wingers are fine and just need time to play and fill out more. We won't know if we need another prop until we play without Graham. We have Laffranchi coming in but next season we should see Carl Forster and maybe Jordan Hand. In regards to needing another 2nd rower like Gilmour, I feel we have enough second rowers, why sign another. It just adds up on the cap for more players that will get less time. The loose forward is fine I feel. Royce has played with Puletua and Wilkin at loose this year. We don't know if he will go for a ball handling loose or a prop type loose.

Fair point but JD could play anywhere from 1-7 he was that good. He played in a widnes backline with players who had the x factor too unlike our back line. Let compare ours to the one in which Davies played in.

1- A Tait v P Wellens
2- A Currier v T Makinson
3- J Davies v M Shenton
4- D Wright v F Meli
5- M Offiah v J Foster
6- T Myler v L Pryce
7- D Hulme v J Lomax

I'm not saying that our backs are rubbish but we do lack that little bit of class which could be rectified as follows IMHO

1- Lomax
2- broughton ( or another winger who can beat a man on the ouside)
3- shenton ( having a new winger might see more ball to show class)
4- meli
5- foster (proven combo with meli now 2 flanks that offer a threat)
6- pryce
7- hohoia

Back now have pace strength and skill with pryce as conductor. Teams would be far more worried by that backline. Also have makinson wheeler and Gaskell fighting for a space on bench as wello would be my bench back to start with for his experience / defense in tight games.


3-

Gary wheeler is back in full training and is available for selection this week.

i went watching the 20s yesterday before the wigan game and wheeler look a couple of weeks off the first team looked very slow playing in the centres the in the halfs second half

Like I said, he's back in full training and available for selection. It's up to Royce if he thinks wheeler is fit enough or not.

i cant see wheeler being in the 19 man squad when it comes out on wednesday we are already playing with too many half fit players who need a op come the end of the season

Lomax isn't a full back, plain and simple. What is the point of wasting his step by shoving him to the back of the field and bringing him in on the 3rd tackle to get mullered by O'Loughlin etc after he has made 10m. He isn't a Tomkins type of player, he is most dangerous with ball in hand attacking players at the line.

We can't make a Sam Tomkins player, the way we play doesnt have that element to it. The three quarters we have now are fine, Meli has been in great form (for him) Makinson is giving 110% every week for a 19/20/21 year old lad playing aginst guys often a lot more developed than him, Shents is getting there but i feel an injury he had at cas might still be with him and why are people getting on Foster's back? He is another Ade but with a phenomenal goal kicking game and probably a little more pace. People on here would still complain about the lack of pace if we had Usain Bolt on the wing.

I agree we are without a game changer but again you dont build Sculthorpe's/Long's etc you have to be patient and see what comes of it. Leon was clearly unfit yesterday, he had a great first half but you can understand why Royce left him on, in 1 second Leon can change a game but unfortunately he didnt. With Leon's (IMO) impending departure Hohaia will play at 6, without doubt. Lomax will carry on at 7 and Makinson should go to full back when Ade comes back fit and ready.

I love you Wello so think about your place at Saints and what you can bring to the team. I agree that we were flat yesterday i think at one point Lomax passed the ball to a standing still James Graham so its not all clicking yet but play Leon against Hudds then dont even take him to Hull the week after and dot he same with Eastmond and Wellens

We used the same move to score both tries and like many have said Shents should have been given the ball more but we were beaten by the better team on defence and they were much much more clinical. I don't think we are too far away but i wouldn't fancy us to beat Warrington or Wigan. They will be at the Grand Final for sure IMO.

Still i was very proud of the lads yesterday, 100% effort on the field and the terraces.

IMO the backs ain't fine, they ain't good enough and we wont win anything with these current backs.

I'm not saying they are rubbish but for us to stay a top 3 side in the next few years and have a chance of winning something we need a centre and a halfback and most prob a prop.

I think the difference on Saturday was, they only needed few chances and they took them, we was camped out on wigans line for 30 mins in the first half and didn't look like scoring.

Meli is doing ok but he's not a centre and is just relying on his strength, the is nothing skillfull about him and he's no chance of creating anything unless he's in their 20 meter. He lacks pace and can be a liability in defense.

Matty Blythe? John Clarke?










Pot Kettle Black.

Don't worry !! Leon Pryce will look world class on Friday night when we (Hudds defence) stand and admire him running through a huge gap to score, i have lost track the number of times in recent years I have seen him score off the same play at knowsley road...... huddersfield have a 'thing' about playing saints away and despite our home win I will be surprised if it doesn't continue Friday but I live in hope... i watched all 38 years of leeds games until this season and was at Knowsley road when we last won..... I live in hope.... just don't bring Kieron Cunningham out of retirement for Friday or I may stay at home.....

I was in the east stand just yards from where we scored our tries and if you don't think he was skillful in his part in them there is no hope to change your opinion on him.

He can be extremely good at drawing in defenders and releasing the ball with just enough space and just the right timing to release Jamie the sparrow down the left hand side. When those two click near the line they are terrific. It's just such a pity it took until the last 15 minutes for them to click. We could have run riot down that edge with more composure.

Yes and I've seen his awful throw it anywhere passes which are totally embarrassing.

Unless we get in there 20 meter, Meli is not useful at all. He will never be a player to score long range try. He's a good finisher and has done ok but he's never a real centre.

On my goodness.

So Shenton is not good enough, basically translates to there is no England centre good enough for Saints.
Meli is not good enough basically translates to there is not a SL centre outside of Carmont from Wigan good enough for Saints.
Foster has no pace, and can't beat a man, yet when he got his hatrick against Catalan's he seamed to beat a few of them for pace.

Makinson well the jury is out, but it is his first year.
Wellens, well there is much agreement on that.

So what is being said is that our 4 players on the wing and centre, must be brought in from NRL, with the exception of Carmont.

Are we living in cloud cookoo land. You can only have 5 overseas under normal rules anymore.

It's just not going to happen, the days of busting the salary cap and packing your squad with kolpak NRL players are gone. If you want to replace any of the above 4 it needs to be done within Saints or other SL clubs.

So unless we are suggesting that the Saints board can buy the wigan backs, this is all completely pointless. Meli has one more year at that point depending on whether some others like Soliola stays we may get a chance to get an NRL centre, but it will not be a top player, it will be someone on a pension or someone struggling to get in. The NRL already beats us hands down money wise and this gap will only increase. We have to make our own or buy from other clubs.

Anyone got any credible suggestions better than what we already have???