|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 10399 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jul 2016 | Jul 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="SaintsFan"Lomax (injured on Friday)'" Lomax went off on Friday right after he'd had a knock, but I think it was a tactical substitution, so was coming off anyway. He also wasn't getting any treatment when he got back to the bench, so it couldn't have been that bad.
Have we heard any news to say he'll be available/unavailable for Sat?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 8991 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2009 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2024 | Jun 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| I'm not usually in favour of bashing coaches and I am still far from calling for his head. As a rule I think that coaches should only be sacked in the off season, or when the season is more or less already over.
However the only person who can impliment solutions to our current situation is the coach.
The loss was not a great shock, Quins are a decent outfit at the moment. The shock is the 16 -0 , 18 - 0, 20 - 0 scorelines against Wigan, Wire and Quins.
It's only been by pure fortune that we have had 2 poorer sides inbetween these games to keep us going.
Eastmond may or may not be trying, but it's common consensus that he is being ineffective. I certainly would not put him out to pasture unless they can pay him off and get a replacement. But 3 or 4 weeks training and slow reintroduction may do the player, team and fans the world of good.
I can't believe Gaskell is getting hammered by some fans already. He is a prospect, but just that at the moment, with his senior partner being ineffectual for what ever reason, it seams some fans are expecting 30year old sean Long performances from a player who probably expected anothe year of maybe 1 or 2, 10 min appearances.
When Long joined the team, he had Goulding, hammond, and Martyn before him and he was allowed to make mistakes without being the crucial element in the team. He would come on and run wild without the responsibility to organise the team and kick. And when Long joined he was no junior.
The Foster experiement has failed and it's time for Simmons to move on and return to 3 forwards and a replacement hooker on the bench. Foster to wing , meli to centre where he can run effectively but not have to make defesive choices that he's not been able to do for 5 years.
The forwards are not offloading or spinning in the tackle, this is for the training ground, also support players, where are the runners off roby's shoulder when he does get his head through??? Usually 10 - 15meters behind him.
Wilkin at loose has been a good coaching choice in my opinion, but when he was injured the coach should have not put or major impact prop at loose. He is not a kicker. Should have been moore, or lomax or even megenis.
Given the injuries I was expecting a close game, and possibly a quins win, but I was not expecting another 40mins of ineefectual play from Saints.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 11377 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2024 | Aug 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="bewareshadows"I'm not usually in favour of bashing coaches and I am still far from calling for his head. As a rule I think that coaches should only be sacked in the off season, or when the season is more or less already over.
However the only person who can impliment solutions to our current situation is the coach.
The loss was not a great shock, Quins are a decent outfit at the moment. The shock is the 16 -0 , 18 - 0, 20 - 0 scorelines against Wigan, Wire and Quins.
It's only been by pure fortune that we have had 2 poorer sides inbetween these games to keep us going.
Eastmond may or may not be trying, but it's common consensus that he is being ineffective. I certainly would not put him out to pasture unless they can pay him off and get a replacement. But 3 or 4 weeks training and slow reintroduction may do the player, team and fans the world of good.
I can't believe Gaskell is getting hammered by some fans already. He is a prospect, but just that at the moment, with his senior partner being ineffectual for what ever reason, it seams some fans are expecting 30year old sean Long performances from a player who probably expected anothe year of maybe 1 or 2, 10 min appearances.
When Long joined the team, he had Goulding, hammond, and Martyn before him and he was allowed to make mistakes without being the crucial element in the team. He would come on and run wild without the responsibility to organise the team and kick. And when Long joined he was no junior.
The Foster experiement has failed and it's time for Simmons to move on and return to 3 forwards and a replacement hooker on the bench. Foster to wing , meli to centre where he can run effectively but not have to make defesive choices that he's not been able to do for 5 years.
The forwards are not offloading or spinning in the tackle, this is for the training ground, also support players, where are the runners off roby's shoulder when he does get his head through??? Usually 10 - 15meters behind him.
Wilkin at loose has been a good coaching choice in my opinion, but when he was injured the coach should have not put or major impact prop at loose. He is not a kicker. Should have been moore, or lomax or even megenis.
Given the injuries I was expecting a close game, and possibly a quins win, but I was not expecting another 40mins of ineefectual play from Saints.'"
Good first post, agree with all of that.
Wilkin's injury is a bigger blow than people realise.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 10399 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jul 2016 | Jul 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="FearTheVee"Good first post, agree with all of that.
Wilkin's injury is a bigger blow than people realise.'"
His work running off the ball was something we missed a lot on Friday. All the players should be doing it, but I know wilkin puts the graft in for this department.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 12189 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jun 2017 | May 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| awaits st pete ......
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 16963 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2009 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2017 | Oct 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Saint Simon"awaits st pete ......'"
I will say this once and only once!
I think wilkin has looked better this year and more like the old wilkin.
Let's move on now!
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 12189 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jun 2017 | May 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="St pete"I will say this once and only once!
I think wilkin has looked better this year and more like the old wilkin.
Let's move on now!'"
sorry mate couldnt help myself
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 16963 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2009 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2017 | Oct 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Saint Simon"sorry mate couldnt help myself
'"
People have the wrong end of the stick about what I think of wilkin.
I'll put the record straight - I think he's a very very talented player who IMO could/should have been a saints great. He's got all the the skills to be top class player.
What really frustrates me is, he don't do it anymore. For what reason I don't know but he's wasting his best days IMO. It's a shame he can't relive the form of 2006 or get anywhere near that.
In fact wilkin was my fave player at one time.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 32361 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2024 | Dec 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| The major difference being that Wilkin had far better players around him in 2006.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 11377 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2024 | Aug 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="St pete"What really frustrates me is, he don't do it anymore. For what reason I don't know but he's wasting his best days IMO. It's a shame he can't relive the form of 2006 or get anywhere near that.
In fact wilkin was my fave player at one time.'"
It was much easier to be Jon Wilkin in 2006 with the ridiculous pack we had the, than to be Jon Wilkin since.
Can I just point out one other minor flaw in your crusade? In 2010, compared to 2006, Jon Wilkin:
- Scored more tries per game
- Had more assists per game
- Made more metres per game
- Carried the ball more per game
- Made more tackles per game
- Missed fewer tackles
- Made more offloads per game
- Bust more tackles per game
- Made more clean breaks per game
Just a minor point.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 12189 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jun 2017 | May 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"The major difference being that Wilkin had far better players around him in 2006.'"
Ahh, the "(insert saints player name here) is only good because of the players around him" line, it been a while
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 16963 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2009 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2017 | Oct 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"The major difference being that Wilkin had far better players around him in 2006.'"
I can see Joel Tomkins going the same way mate
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 16963 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2009 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2017 | Oct 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Christ! I even get slated when I praise wilkin.
Think il stick to just slagging him off then.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 16963 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2009 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2017 | Oct 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Saint Simon"Ahh, the "(insert saints player name here) is only good because of the players around him" line, it been a while
'"
I agree, DA only got coach of the year coz he had good players, scully (twice), roby, wello only got man of steel because they had great players around them and so on ........
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 16170 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2016 | Oct 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="bewareshadows"I can't believe Gaskell is getting hammered by some fans already. He is a prospect, but just that at the moment, with his senior partner being ineffectual for what ever reason, it seams some fans are expecting 30year old sean Long performances from a player who probably expected anothe year of maybe 1 or 2, 10 min appearances.'"
I think the people who are hammering Gaskell are those who are either clueless about how rugby league is played or they don't care! Gaskell is showing a lot of courage, commitment, maturity and skill. He is raw and his mistakes are bound to be significant given the unfortunate position he has been placed in by partnering Kyle Eastmond. However, I sincerely hope he is receiving encouragement and guidance not just from the coach but also from senior players so that his confidence is not jeopardised. I also hope that Simmons continues to keep him playing in the first team as during one of these matches we could see him click and really kick on, much like Foster did during last season.
Quote The Foster experiement has failed and it's time for Simmons to move on and return to 3 forwards and a replacement hooker on the bench. '"
By doing this though you are asking for a wholesale change around in the team should one of the backs get injured. We had enough of that last season. The players have openly said in the local press that they want to play in one position. We have already seen how well Wilkin has responded to that. Such a shame he is injured as he was crucial to us, especially in the absence of Pryce.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 16170 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2016 | Oct 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Offside Monkey"Have we heard any news to say he'll be available/unavailable for Sat?'"
Not yet.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 10399 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jul 2016 | Jul 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="SaintsFan"I think the people who are hammering Gaskell are those who are either clueless about how rugby league is played or they don't care! Gaskell is showing a lot of courage, commitment, maturity and skill. .'" I thought he looked good on Friday.
He put a kick out of the full and towards the end through a long pass into touch, but...
His long kicking, although mixed, included some good ones and was a better contribution than Eastmond. He kicked a massive bomb in the 2nd half that had a wicked spin on it, which the fullback fluffed and we were unlucky it bounced awy ffrom the chasers.
The first glimmer of hope on friday came when he ghosted through 15metres out, if he'd had support we'd have scored (just after Flanders had trapped their man in goal).
We were unlucky to be pulled for a forward pass when he put Moore in under the sticks.
He put Meli in for his try with a lovely long pass and had a hand in the build up to Graham's.
Also, he looks reasonably robust in defence and hasn't picked up an injury or looked like he's going to cry at any point, which we couldn't say during Eastmond's early days.
He also falls into the skinny kid catagory, with such youngsters as Roby, Stomkins & Foster, who seem alot more injury resistant than the bulky frames of Wheeler and Eastmond. Which could be a huge bonus.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 16170 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2016 | Oct 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Offside Monkey"IHe put a kick out of the full and towards the end through a long pass into touch, but...'"
Aye, but how many times did Roby kick out on the full last year? At least twice if I remember right; once at the DW. And throwing long passes into touch are not a newbie specialty! That's just timing, something which will come with more game practice. I'm not arguing with you here, just adding to what you have said. His mistakes, though significant in that individual game, are to be expected in such a raw player but I think he is doing great and I really do hope we stick with him.
All your points are well made and just highlight how important he was in that match.
Quote He also falls into the skinny kid catagory, with such youngsters as Roby, Stomkins & Foster, who seem alot more injury resistant than the bulky frames of Wheeler and Eastmond. Which could be a huge bonus.'"
Yes, there does seem to be a resilience among those with a certain kind of frame (watch him go and get injured now, lol!).
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 10399 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jul 2016 | Jul 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="SaintsFan"Aye, but how many times did Roby kick out on the full last year? At least twice if I remember right; once at the DW. And throwing long passes into touch are not a newbie specialty! That's just timing, something which will come with more game practice. I'm not arguing with you here, just adding to what you have said. His mistakes, though significant in that individual game, are to be expected in such a raw player but I think he is doing great and I really do hope we stick with him.
'" He made mistakes, but his positves by far out weighed any negetives, no matter what the sad one says. I'm looking forward to seeing him play along side Pryce.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 8991 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2009 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2024 | Jun 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Re: Wilkin.
I think this guy is one of the best team players. He plays what ever position the coach throws him into, will play off the bench if asked to. Players of his career length do have injury seasons which I think he has in the last 2 or 3 seasons. But because he will play anywhere he gets pushed about by the coaches. In his early career he played alot of back positions and loose forward. As the years go on he gets pushed more and more into the 2nd row or as a sub for 2nd rowers.
Yet when we get caught short these same coaches then look to Wilkin to take up the 6 position. Think about it could you fulfil a specialist role at your work, if you just train and work at a generalist role for most of your days.
IMHO his talent has been wasted by coaches down the years. He was the natural loose forward to take over from Scully, but we have had wasted years of Flannery and co taking the loose position, with no kicking, vision or ball distribution in their natural game. Flannery is a 2nd rower solid in the tackle and strong if not amazing going forwards. But put him in a gap and watch him go.
This year Wilkin has started at 13 and Flannery in the 2nd row and they have both looked the better for it.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 16170 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2016 | Oct 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Offside Monkey"He made mistakes, but his positves by far out weighed any negetives, no matter what the sad one says. '"
Spot on.
Quote I'm looking forward to seeing him play along side Pryce.'"
Me too. If Pryce ever gets fit!
Quote ="bewareshadows"This year Wilkin has started at 13 and Flannery in the 2nd row and they have both looked the better for it.'"
Totally right. They should stay playing in those positions unless our injury situation is so dire that there is absolutely no choice whatsoever but to move them. We so desperately need stability and for players to be playing where they are best suited.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 14094 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2019 | Jul 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="bewareshadows"
This year Wilkin has started at 13 and Flannery in the 2nd row and they have both looked the better for it.'"
We can thank Anderson for that poor decision.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 32361 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2024 | Dec 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Billinge_Lump"We can thank Anderson for that poor decision.'"
No, that can't be right, it must have been Potter.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 9898 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2010 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| That's how you beat Quins.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 31335 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2015 | Nov 2014 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Lord Tony Smith"That's how you beat Quins.'"
Ahh, well then. Here's your medal.
No. Wait. It isn't October yet.
|
|
|
|
|