Thats exactly what Im talking about. Kyle likes to pick and choose when to come into a game and do something significant (like the try against Wigan under the sticks at KR last season to win the game). What doesnt come naturally is the structured first receiver stuff and game plan plays that coaches like one of the half backs to take on. Thats what I mean when I called them drifters....they like to drift in and out of a game. Its the half back who does this role who is credited for "taking the team around the park and completely controlling the game".

Leon doesnt do this kind of structured work for the team either, which has forced Kyle into this role a bit more. Leon is more of an off the cuff finisher rather than structured player that a Barrett or Longy was by the time he retired.

Given the common call that we need more penetration from full back in order to give us that attacking weapon STomkins has done for wigan, it would seem a plausible solution to move Leon to 1 and bing in a more tactical 6, using Flannery's quota sopt if neccesary. Leon would play basically the same role in attack, but we'd have a leg up on the tactical ladder.

All paper talk, of course. I've seen how much Pryce fancies it when the high ball goes up, and its not a great look on his face.

That's why Matty Smith stood out against Warrington. Whatever the debate may be about his quality, he stepped up and controlled that game, and to all the Saints fans around me, as well as me, it was like a breath of fresh air. Longy had been hit and miss in this area for it feels like ages and we haven't had an organising halfback all season, even though Pryce has tried to do that work (and has been more successful than Eastmond). We need another Smith (debate as to his quality aside because I just don't want to go there again!).

Pryce would have made a devestating full back - except that he doesn't have the heart of someone like wellens who would do anything to prevent a try or take a catch with disregard to his own safety.

I think Kyle will fully develop this side, and sooner rather than later. He already has excellent awareness of the players on the pitch and an all round skill set to make things easier for him. If we can keep him on the field next season, I think by the end of the year he'll be much more accomplished as the controlling player we want - he's streets ahead of where Long was at his age.


He's got it in him, the match that sticks in my mind was when he came on against Wigan at the DW last year and totally settled our team down and saw us through for the win in exactly the manner we're talking about. That's when both he and Tomkins had started to be getting regular games.

his it true they call eastmond tampax in one week out three

He's funny like that, Pryce. I too get that impression, but then some weeks you see him really put himself about in defence, so I'm not sure. He does have a lot of size to stop people on the line, but tends to flap with his arms a bit.

Classic from the Catalan game (away) earlier in the year that sums up Leon perfectly:

Lomax gets knocked clean out and goes off.

Wilkin gets a nasty cut to the head, goes into the dressing room has 14 internal stitches, 16 external stitches and goes back to the bench. Wilkin asks Lomax if he could borrow his scull cap just incase he has to go back on.

20 mins to go.......Joey Hayes comes running from the field....."Jon, get ready....you are going to have to go back on.........Leon's headache has got really bad."

That's a bit of a short term view isn't it? Wellens is 30 already. How many more years does he have in his legs?

In last year's Four Nations, I thought Tomkins clearly looked better than Eastmond, I stated as much on here. The SL Grand Final was the next time I saw him play and he looks even better. Reminds me a bit of Josh Dugan in a way.

Kyle Eastmond wasn't playing in the Grand Final, so how can you compare them then?

As for the Four Nations, at that point Sam Tomkins had had more first team game time than Kyle Eastmond so he should have progressed further. However, to pretty much everyone's mind bar those of Wigan fans, they are both equal but different. It's like comparing chalk with cheese comparing those two. They have very different games but both are highly skilled in their own style. That is why they would make a great halfback pairing at international level and had Kyle been fit, they would both now be down under.

Kyle Eastmond had a sensational Four Nations tournament last year. At that point, I knew we had a star it's just a shame injuries have ruined his year this time round. Keep Kyle fit and there isn't alot between him and Tomkins talent wise.

No he hadn't.

No they arent equal. Only a saints fan would think that. Tomkins has by far the better game and its frightening how good he can go on to be. Tomkins can do everything eastmond can but better, except for ducking under a tackle and getting injured

You've made some interesting posts in the last couple of weeks.

According to the stats on the respective Wigan and Saints sites:

Tomkins appearances: 2010 = 30, Career = 61, so 31 first team appearances before the Four Nations at the end of 2009.

Eastmond appearances: 2010 = 23, Career = 41, so 18 first team appearances before the Four Nations at the end of 2009.

Not sure if they are accurate, but they're from the official sites. If you also factor in a lot of Kyles's pre-2010 appearances weren't at 7 due to Long being at the club (whilst Tomkins played 6) then I'd say Tomkins had far more top level half-back experience than Kyle by the time of the 2009 Four Nations.

Veridian Dynamics.

We use stats to make you look like a fool. Yay.





[size=85Sorry, if you watch "Better off Ted" that will mean something to you.[/size

I'm only referring to the obvious improvement of Tomkins when talking about the Grand Final actually.


I saw nothing but a running game that impressed me with Eastmond in the Four Nations. If he's showed more than that elsewhere, so be it. I only comment on what I see.

\kyles got an impressive skill set with long and short passing and a better kicking game. It wasn't particlary used to its potential in the intenationals as Sinfield, when not at dummy half, would take 1st reciever, playing sam on one side and kyle on the other.
This time last year, on club form, I think the majority of posters agreed that Kyle was just ahead of Sam.
This year's been Sam's, obviously, but Kyle's been injured for half of it. Had the injury problems been the oither way round, with Sam missing the 2nd half of the season and Kyle playing, he would have got the same accolades and you never know, the trophy may have ended up elsewhere(?). That's sport though.
Hopefully the injuries to Kyle will pass and he can get his career back on track. That way, we will have two genuine talents to take on the Aussies with.

When sam came through, people mocked that he looked like a little boy, build wise, but I pointed out that was the same buiold Roby had when he appeared. That wirey build type obviously is a robust one.
Eastmond, land to a certain extend Lomax and Wheeler, are much more bulky builds and it seems to be detrimental to the moment. Our forwards, with obviously bigger frames, don't struggle the same.

Cheers for the non-defensive post.

The wirey build thing is another reason why Tomkins reminds me of Dugan. They don't look like they can do much, but they're both extremely difficult to tackle. Dugan actually topped the list for tackle breaks in the NRL this season, 192. That's the second most by any player ever and he's only 20.

Tomkins also wears red boots, doesn't he?

There is no way that Sam Tomkins played 31 first team games prior to 2009 four nations.

Eastmond played Superleague games in 2007 and 2008. Tomkins didn't.
[urlhttp://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2007&hp1=2844&hs2=2007&hp2=2501&stat=tries&season=2010[/url

[urlhttp://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2008&hp1=2844&hs2=2008&hp2=2501&stat=tries&season=2010[/url
[urlhttp://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2009&hp1=2844&hs2=2009&hp2=2501&stat=tries&season=2010[/url

The official sites certainly seem to be miles off if compared to the Superleague site! I suppose the official sites include cup games too though that doesn't explain away the big differences

Assuming the Superleague site is correct, Kyle had made more Superleague appearances going into the 4-Nations..

However it's worth noting that, although Kyle played games in 2007 and 2008 (2 and 13 respectively) - in 2009 alone Sam made only 7 appearances fewer than Kyle had made in his whole career spanning 2007/2008/2009.

What that shows to me is that Sam was a SL regular half-back in 2009, where as Kyle was still an in-and-out bit part player due to Long/Pryce being at the club.

When judging experience going into the 4 Nations, Sam had been a first choice half back at Wigan for the best part of a season, whereas Kyle had never been a first choice half back at Saints.

Sam had also made nearly twice as many 2009 Superleague appearance as Kyle going into that series and importantly - most of them in the position he would play for England.

Tomkins made 21 starts and 6 sub appearances in 2009. SL debut was vs Quins in Round 4.

The lad was in and out all season though until that numpty Tim Smith broke his wrist at Hull KR, then Sam really stepped up to the big time of playing 6 week in week out for the team.