That maybe the mantra this week, but next week they may say without Walmsley and Savellio in the same team, we don't have enough forwards to match everyone else, so Mose needs to come back.

Or maybe we lost our way due to Turner leaving the middle of the park.

We were arguably even more leaky without Turner so I really don't know what we're gaining leaving him on the bench.

Walsh's defence .... well, what do I need to say which isn't obvious?

As for Mose - we needed him tonight. Saints' weakness is always from the 20th minute onwards (both halves) against Cas. When their mobile (and fit) guys come at us we desperately need a big forward to take some of the zip out of their feet.

The thing is - Mose played an absolute blinder in the last Cas game in that precise role. His charging 30m run with a handful of minutes remaining (putting us in A1 field position) SHOULD have been the game. It certainly wasn't his fault we blew the match through stupidity.

I too think he is worth a bench place; it all went downhill a bit when Richards and Thompson came - especially Richards, he is not quite a big man but is slower than a big man.

I thought Flash did well when he eventually came on, whatever he gives (questionable) he gives 100%.

The thing is - Mose's supposedly dropped because his "attitude" isn't right. And yet how many backs were turned resulting in tries tonight?

Ridiculous.

And this happened last game, too.

Watching the game again it's staggering how many tries we gave away because players simply weren't paying attention.

The SKY team made a lot of Cas' excellent handling. But the truth is players wide awake and with their minds on the job of defending would have stopped two-thirds of their points.

I did attempt to count the number of backs turned returning the 10m but gave up after the 30th minute.

I've no idea what LMS was thinking - head down, running toward his own sticks whilst the Cas player was running past him with the ball. But, then, I've no idea what Jon Wilkin was thinking - in exactly the same position last match (not to mention giving away three silly penalties on the bounce).

If I'm Mose Masoe and Keiron Cunningham is telling me I'm dropped because of my "work ethic" or "attitude" then I'll be asking him to explain - in detail - why any number of senior Saints are keeping their jerseys.

Its a good job Mose wash,t playing last night, he would have been held responsible for being lazy in defence and not doing enough carries. I always thought it was a team game and not an individual one!!!.

The whole thing about players retreating the 10m with their backs turned is a really good gauge of who has played or coached the game in recent years, and who hasn't. Every team is coached to turn and retreat the 10, as you can get back and set your defensive line much faster. You're also less likely to knacker your calves like if you back peddle every step. Go and watch the first set of the 2013 RLWC Final. Australia are the best team in the world, completely fresh, yet they're turning the backs to retreat and get set.

Should LMS have been paying attention until someone called they had secured the ball? Yes, but that's something completely different to thinking that following conventional wisdom (with good reason) shows a poor attitude.

I think LMS was intent upon setting the defensive line in anticipation of the next phase, and in the (mistaken, but reasonable) belief that Burns had wrapped up the tackle.

Maybe I could cope with Wilkin and LMS facing the opposite way - [iif it weren't for the fact that an opposition player was running past them to score[/i.

Indeed, some might say the reason an opponent was running past them - to score - was primarily because [ithey had turned their backs.[/i

I mean, it's certainly a possibility.

No idea who it was making the initial tackle running back but they should have wrapped up the ball, they'd practically completed the tackle. If it was a tackle in a usual defensive line they should have finished it, I don't see why they didn't, that player (McMeeken I think?) should have been tackled and held down for as long as possible without giving away a penalty. LMS was within his right to think that tackle was completed and make that 10m as quick as he could to be ready for that next tackle. Whoever didn't complete that tackle was as much to blame as LMS IMO.

What, LMS can't get back the ten without turning his back? If so how come practically everyone else in the league CAN?

I reckon it was a bad decision by LMS, it was Burns who made the initial tackle but it needed 2 tacklers to hold up a big cas forward with momentum, we had Swift, Percival and Roby already tracking back. LMS didn,t check if the ball was wrapped up and ran off, Roby saw the situation and went back across to help out , but was too late as the pass went to Roberts.

AT the end of the day, he's not been pulling his weight, he's not looked intersted and Imo will be happy not to be playing.

We've carried him for far to long and enough is enough and unless we have a incredible injury crisis in the pack or rest players for the semis then I don't think we will see him again. He couidnt get in last week with Sav and Vea out so he's mow behind Amor, walmsley, sav, richards, Thompson and LMS and rightly so.

The way players are coached to get back in the defensive line now is to turn your back on play but keep your shoulders square to the play of the ball and look over the open side shoulder so you can run back faster but still watch the ball. To turn your back completely without a thought for the ball at this level is unforgivable.

As for the forwards, I would go:

Mose
Roby
Amor
LMS
Wilkin
Thompson

Greenwood
Walmsley
Savelio
Flash (Vea when fit)

I really don't see what Richards offers at the moment, in a few years maybe but he simply isn't good enough to warrant a spot in a strong 17 at the moment.

Richards puts 100% in. Tackles his heart out, always willing to take it up...that's 3 more attributes than Mose IMO. Mose has undoubted star quality but isn't consistent and we have to carry him. It's like having only 3 subs.

When is Vea back, btw?

He's a belting player but do you think he's always likely to get injuries? He certainly doesn't hold back in the collisions/tackling.

I treat injuries as completely random events unless there is some underlying reason such as an existing chronic condition. I haven't heard anything about Vea so I'm not concerned right now.

I mean, if it's a choice between Vea always playing at a hundred miles an hour or not it's the former every time. All we can hope is the dice fall in our favour I guess. There's certainly no point worrying about something which is outside our control.

He does indeed, I cant argue with any of that but in all fairness if I pulled a saints shirt on I would do all of the above; it doesn't mean I'm good enough. With the likes of Amor, Thompson, Wilkin, Greenwood and Roby you have more than enough graft in there, you can afford to have those X factor players.

Whilst Mose does not give consistant performances one thing he has proven is that time and again he steps up in the big games and can be unplayable. He is the rare type of player who can swing a game in your favour on his own.

A choice between that and someone who will make plenty carries at a 5m average gain, I know who I would rather have in the team personally. I think most if not all opposition would rather face up against Richards over Mose too.

Mose meter per carry is pretty shocking for 6ft 6in 23stone guy.

I,m almost sure stat wise he is the best prop in superleague for metres per carry. I,ll answer your next response in advance: Yes he does have a poor no of carries per mins on the pitch, but thats not 100% his fault.

Trying to find an example where a prop of that size moves to another club and plays for the better or worse. Probably Baloo would be an example he didn't do a lot of minutes at the bulls and used as a battering ram, Saints signed him and played him differently gave him more minutes and gave him quality ball resulting in loads of tackle busts.

some still making excuses for out and out bone idle laziness

The problem is you are still whinging about him when he's not even playing, you need to turn the record over and moan about someone else. We all are all wondering who will be the "goat" next season.