I think comparing 12yr olds and 20yr old international players is a little stupid to be honest.

I have to agree, as you say its not a popular opinion, but i wish we'd have kept Matty, great player IMO

I wish we could have kept Eastmond, it would have solved a lot of our problems at our club level and international level.
On the Smith/Eastmond debate we can say Smith is now a very good superleague player who has took 10 years to get an international cap, where Eastmond had far more potential proven by getting an international cap in 18 months.
Over the years saints half backs have seen them play "off the cuff" rugby to suit the clubs style of play, Smith didn't really have the skillset to fit into this category and seems to better in a structered side like Wigan.

The frustrating thing with Smith is not that we favoured Eastmond ahead of him. Eastmond was clearly the better prospect and I feel pretty sure that he'd be one of the best scrum halves in world rugby league had he stuck around. It's unfortunate that he didn't, but such is life.

The frustrating thing is that we binned Smith off while Scott Moore was still at the club. Smith could have done a good job of the back up half/hooker role that Moore was playing at the time, and then when Eastmond jumped ship we would have had a replacement already at the club. Instead we were lumbered with a brainless hooker/loose forward who spent the next few years either out on loan or giving away penalties in big matches.

I think thats a good call tbh. The problem we had was we just didnt think through the contract / recruitment situation properly. Letting Smith go and keeping Moore but also only having Eastmond on a short term deal was utterly stupid.

You think 12 years olds are throwing 10/15m passes to their wrong side perfectly in step for their outside backs ? Considering barely any British halves, Smith included, are even capable of providing quick and accurate passes to their wrong side at all, you're very wrong.

So, I'll surmise you're either an upset mug because 'dat norty man sed bad fings about de Wigun pwayer' or you're an idiot. Since I've checked and you're a daft Wigan fan, I'll conclude that you're both.

I think the only feasible explanation for the Eastmond 1 year deal was that he had basically said 'it's one year or nothing'. In that situation I can see why Saints gave him the deal, no doubt in the hope that they could free up some cap space and make him a bigger offer the following year. In hindsight we'd have been better off cutting our losses at that point and looking for a permanent replacement, but that would have been a massive call to make at the time.

Every top quality side is structured. Off the cuff rugby grows off the back of a solid structure. It comes from doing the simple things right.

I feel that if we'd invested in Smith, he'd have won his 1st England cap years back.

If we are being honest, matty smith didn't look enough at the time and eastmond was streets ahead of him. I'd say Moore had more potential at the time.

Yeah, you're probably right. I suppose they were two different kind of prospects. Moore was a rough diamond - talented but flawed - so I suspect the club thought that if they could smooth out the irregularities they would have a top player. As it happened he never got rid of his weaknesses. Smith probably looked like a solid enough player who was never going to get much better. Fair play to him - he's proved a lot of people wrong.

That's the call the clubs have to make with kids. Only so many they can sign or think are good enough. Sometimes the big potential kids don't turn out and it's the ones you don't expect that make it.

Ive never been big Matty Smith fan if I'm being honest but this last season I thought he was up there with Clark and Roby for man of steel.

I think smith fits Wigans game and how they play.

im not comparing the player i am comparing a pass that literally most people on here could throw, maybe not in the same circumstance but they could certainly throw that pass.

Quote ="SLS"You think 12 years olds are throwing 10/15m passes to their wrong side perfectly in step for their outside backs ? Considering barely any British halves, Smith included, are even capable of providing quick and accurate passes to their wrong side at all, you're very wrong. So, I'll surmise you're either an upset mug because 'dat norty man sed bad fings about de Wigun pwayer' or you're an idiot. Since I've checked and you're a daft Wigan fan, I'll conclude that you're both.'" oh dear. its a simple bloody pass maybe you should go watch some youth rugby if you don't believe kids are able to pass a ball 10 meters EITHER SIDE. Kyle Eastmond is right handed i believe so he was passing it on his more favourable side unlike Matty smith against Samoa, you know the pass the greatest half back ever declared "unstoppable" Or are you just ing your nickers because Matty smith plays for Wigan and saints couldn't see the potential? www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULk3No_h_tI 1.53 just incase you didn't watch the game.

Quote ="SLS"You think 12 years olds are throwing 10/15m passes to their wrong side perfectly in step for their outside backs ? Considering barely any British halves, Smith included, are even capable of providing quick and accurate passes to their wrong side at all, you're very wrong. So, I'll surmise you're either an upset mug because 'dat norty man sed bad fings about de Wigun pwayer' or you're an idiot. Since I've checked and you're a daft Wigan fan, I'll conclude that you're both.'" oh dear. its a simple bloody pass maybe you should go watch some youth rugby if you don't believe kids are able to pass a ball 10 meters EITHER SIDE. Kyle Eastmond is right handed i believe so he was passing it on his more favourable side unlike Matty smith against Samoa, you know the pass the greatest half back ever declared "unstoppable" Or are you just ing your nickers because Matty smith plays for Wigan and saints couldn't see the potential? www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULk3No_h_tI 1.53 just incase you didn't watch the game.

Quote ="dubairl":1wlj1d9bicon_lol.gif oh dear. its a simple bloody pass maybe you should go watch some youth rugby if you don't believe kids are able to pass a ball 10 meters EITHER SIDE. Kyle Eastmond is right handed i believe so he was passing it on his more favourable side unlike Matty smith against Samoa, you know the pass the greatest half back ever declared "unstoppable" Or are you just ing your nickers because Matty smith plays for Wigan and saints couldn't see the potential? www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULk3No_h_tI 1.53 just incase you didn't watch the game.'" ). A right handed player finds it harder passing to their right (such as Eastmond) whilst a left handed player finds it harder passing to their left. Isn't that nice symmetry ? Sean Long, for instance, made a living as a British RL great scrum half without ever being a great passer to his wrong side (his left for your struggling imagination). I realise you're an idiot, so I'm going to leave it here for you. We've all heard the saying about being dragged to an idiot's level and all that. Perhaps when you figure your left from your right, you'll be better placed to discuss the merits of a half back's passing game.

Quote ="dubairl":1wlj1d9bicon_lol.gif oh dear. its a simple bloody pass maybe you should go watch some youth rugby if you don't believe kids are able to pass a ball 10 meters EITHER SIDE. Kyle Eastmond is right handed i believe so he was passing it on his more favourable side unlike Matty smith against Samoa, you know the pass the greatest half back ever declared "unstoppable" Or are you just ing your nickers because Matty smith plays for Wigan and saints couldn't see the potential? www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULk3No_h_tI 1.53 just incase you didn't watch the game.'" ). A right handed player finds it harder passing to their right (such as Eastmond) whilst a left handed player finds it harder passing to their left. Isn't that nice symmetry ? Sean Long, for instance, made a living as a British RL great scrum half without ever being a great passer to his wrong side (his left for your struggling imagination). I realise you're an idiot, so I'm going to leave it here for you. We've all heard the saying about being dragged to an idiot's level and all that. Perhaps when you figure your left from your right, you'll be better placed to discuss the merits of a half back's passing game.

considering Tomkins was on his left and he passed it left that would make it his preferable side, starting to look silly now. And i watch plenty of rugby league here and play enough rugby too.

But don't worry buddy you keep ignoring the fact you highlighted a simple pass and tried to pass it off as an amazing pace that Matty smith couldn't do even though i have posted a video which clearly shows he can and has, your being either ignorant or deluded.

Highlighted:

i think its you who needs to learn his left from right

What does Tomkins have to do with it ?!?! Are you talking about a different pass ? Really ? Oh my word, give it up my daft Wigan friend. First you don't know which side is harder to pass to and now you don't know what pass I'm referring to !

Do you think he has?

I'm not sure he's got that much better than he was with us as a youngster. He's obviously gained experience, hence his decision making has improved, but he's still got a good long kicking game, an average short kicking game and an almost non existant running game.

He fits in very well with Wigans very structured play, and has done a decent job wherever he has been, but I'm not sure he's advanced that much as a player since he left us.

Could most people throw that pass at that level ?

haha hold my hands up on my phone it didnt show the full clip and i thought you meant the pass to tomkins the play before



thats why i was shocked to how you was saying it was amazing. But i will say the pass that Matty smith did against samoa was very similar.

Yes, I think so. Three years ago I think the majority of people would have said that he's not good enough for a top club. Now he's guiding a successful Wigan side around the park, picking up individual honours in finals, being selected for the dream team and in the England side. He's not the most effervescent scrum half any of us has seen, but I think it's fair to say his career has exceeded a lot of people's expectations.

I agree that it was the way the contracts where organised that put us back.

Eastmond should have been nailed down first not last. If he only would sign a lesser contract, then we should have made provision for him leaving.

Instead we let Long go to Hull, Smith go to Salford and then left Eastmond to hang us high and dry. Pushing Gaskell and Lomax in ahead of their time and panic buying Lance.

It's a long chain, but if they had tied Eastmond first, when he played hard ball, we should have realized and kept Smith on, with the knowledge that Eastmond was likely on the way out.

Smith with 2 years in him would have balance Gaskell or Lomax out far better than having to push them both through. If Eastmond had changed his mind, having Smith as a back up to Pryce leaving would be no bad thing either.

I was just going to say exactly the same thing in that he has not improved all that much to be honest, perhaps a bit more experience in his play over the years. The problem is that the quality and standard of Superleague has dropped a few notches over the last 5 years, which effectively has made Smith look a decent player.

Just imagine if Eastmond had stayed in League he would have had 6 more years of experience and could have been one of the most influencial half backs in superleague, alas money and bad advice changed all that.

Im sorry? Why has Eastmond had bad advice? To me it seems he got perfect advice. A massive pay rise and running out for England in front of 80k people instead of 15k people.

Regards

King James

The way it was handled. The only signing 1yr deal then leaving. The fallout with club, players and fans.

He was young and badly advised.

I know for fact a certain ex rugby league player got inside his head, that year I met up with McManus in Caernarfon and he was absolutely fuming at what went on behind the scenes with the ex rugby league player starting a bidding war which basically messed the kid up.