I thought I'd give this thread chance to build before my input warped the thread and prompted people to either agree with me (Because I'm right) or disagree with me (Because they are jealous of my popularity

).

But I see that rather predictably, apart from the 3 girls (WidnesSaints, Saintclaire and wakeysaint, you are all girls I presume?) there is no support at all for him. The Monkey then comes in with a suitably balanced post.

We all love Wello, he's given a decade plus of fantastic service, but his time is up, his number has been called. You can see the frustration he has towards his own performances in games, particularly at the weekend and whilst he was flapping his arms and gesticulating to the touch judge, Wakefield made a break up field. His behaviour as Captain is unacceptable and he isn't a positive influence on the team anymore. He appears to be doing better with fielding kicks as he's simply not getting to them anymore, so he doesn't knock on because he never gets there. He isn't having any impact on games and it's like we're playing with 12 men. I've mentioned before about how his experience means he'll be able to poach a try off someone else's work because he can spot where breaks will occur, but that masks his terrible overall contribution to our attack.

I have been called a few things in my time but never a girl...not sure how you came up with that one from a post about a full back and his abilities??

If I had added on that I love his luscious black locks or love the way his bum looks in his shorts then maybe but I was talking about his RL abilities

I too have a fully functioning set of meat and 2 veg1

I agree that his anger toward the officials is not the example a captain should be taking and frankly he's only embarassing himself when he does this, to write him off completely is ridiculous. He can still read the line well and is capable of making a nifty try saving tackle. We don't have anybody at the club who can take on the roll of Fullback (Ashe is too inexperienced at the moment/Lance at a push) so lets get behind him!

No offense meant, I was just looking for a nice easy way to pidgeon hole you together.

I'll always get behind him, but think Makinson is/was the right man to take the fullback spot and this new deal he's getting is perhaps not the most positive move by the club.

I think you will eventually see Makinson at full back, but at the moment he isnt experienced enough to be as effective there as Wello is. I think another year of playing in the same team as Wellens and watching his positional play (which is very good to make up for his lack of pace) will make him better prepared. If Makinson can pick up Wellens' positional play and combine it with the pace he has got, we could have one hell of a future full back there

I don't. I think you'll see him continually used on the wing and some other player will sneak in and pinch the #1 shirt, whether its Swift or Gaskell out tof the Under20s, or Lomax or Lance being shuffled around due to a new signing.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see Makinson at Fullback.

I think you'll probably eventually see Makinson at Salford or Wakefield actually unfortunately...

As a kind of neutral (St's have always been my second team - you need one to support when your own team is perenially out of the running by halfway through the season) Wellens is a player I respect and admire for his longevity and great service to RL; I'm also reliably informed that he's an all-round nice bloke.

I'd have to agree with Saddened however, in that his constant chelping and arm-waving at the officials is an embarassment and not really acceptable behaviour from a club captain; it shows the game in a poor light and sets a bad example to young players, not to mention the detriment to his own game - didn't we make a break that resulted in a try when he *should* have been at marker, but was too busy moaning at the ref?

In short - great player, shame about the attitude.

Yup indeed. And I think if you got a physchologist/physchiatrist in to analyse his behavioural issues, the conclusion would be that the route cause was frustration at his own performances.

I too get frustrated at my age with my own "performances" but I don't try to take off like a birdman.

I think he is frustrated more with the overall team performances which he feels responsible for as captain.

I am OK with wello at F/B and captain for 1 more year as I think that he has had actually a much improved second half of the season than the first half or all of last year in fact. Against hudds a couple of weeks ago he was my MOM with some great try saving tackles and against warry he was far from being anywhere near the worst player out there.

Might be at the back end of his playing days but would still walk into most teams for a season or two.Like Sinfield hes still a good player who if he cuts the mouth is a better player for it.The bloke would run through a brick wall for you and you would miss him if he suddenly said thats it Im finished as of now.

For me the jury is still out on Tommy Mack.
He needs to prove his worth for a spot in the starting 17, never mind staking a permanent position of his own!

I think hte general point is that we don't want to be like most teams, we want to be the best. We're not a million miles away, but there are obviously areas in which we must improve, lest we remain also rans.

He plays in a garbage backline with no service to be fair to him, and is still only a young lad probably being played out of his natural position, but nevertheless he's rarely looked much better than average so far this season, and his form has started to dip alarmingly of late with depressing echoes of Foster's decline. He has the makings of a decent SL player but has a long way to go yet.

Nonsense , you only get experience though playing there, he's spent years watching Wello and no doubt other fullbacks far better than Wello he needs to play and not be held back because we arn't ruthless enough to do what needs to be done and move Wello out

I've started to doubt if makinson is good enough to play fullback to be honest. I don't see what he offers which is better than wello.

Wello is safe as houses with any kick, he's great in defence, he postional play is top class in defence and attack, he's got that knack of getting in the right place to pick up tries but his lack of kick return is a massive in us getting on the front foot and it's very rare he makes a break from a kick return.

Makinson isn't as great in attack as people suggest. Has anyone seen him make a break or beat a man? His defence is very very good, he's pulled off some great tackles over the last two seasons. He's now become a liability on the high kicks, he's dropping kick after kick. His try scoring record is poor. I also don't think he's as fast as people think. He's only young as still has a lot to learn and that's why IMO I wouldn't play him fullback yet.

I'm not bagging tommy or bigging wello up but that's how I see it at this moment in time.

This might shock a few but I'd bring back my old mate Jamie foster for the rest of the year now, we are heading into the play offs and kid kicking could prove vital. If Jamie played last week we would have won the game.

With the form of Tommy at the moment and the fact he's dropping kicks just as Jamie does I just think Jamie's kicking and finishing could be massive for us.

Makinson is a better finisher than Foster, imo. Some of the tries he's scored (against leeds and cats spring to mind) have shown a better finishing ability.

I'm not trying to turn this into Tommy v Jamie or say who's the better player, I'm trying to see who'd be better for the team come the big games.

As per usual you'll get the rubbish replies on here turning it into a heated debate.

I think the drop in Makinson's form has shown an issue that happens to most young players. After an initial bright start their form dips as they learn the game and more importantly, the opposition learn their game. I think some of the blind backing of him is down to some people bagging Foster as being woeful when it happened to him, rather than giving him time to try and work through it (which he may or may not do), and them being shown to be wrong about Foster. Given his dip in form, I would not move him to full back at this moment in time, I'd take him out of the front line for a bit to recuperate mentally and physically.

I still think Lomax should move to full back, he is solid defensively, can take a high ball and it also means he can still involve himself as an attacking threat, both in structured and open play. He'll still be involved creatively in an attacking sense, but would also get the space he needs to decide when to get involved, because for me he's floundering at 7 at the moment.

For me Wello,s replacement should still be Ashe, whether Brown can give him the opportunity next season I don,t know.
Our whole backline look like a team of misfits, headless chickens etc. Again Brown needs to work on Jones and Turner fairly quickly.
I don,t know where Makinson will fit in once Gardener gets re selected.
Wello and Wilkin come in for critism as senior players, but if these two are not playing then we lose all communication and leadership in the team.
I think we are where we are because of club policy of trying to bring youth through but its not worked because of lack of experienced guile in the pivotal postions

Been saying the same myself ever since he first came into the team, usually to howls of derision from those dazzled by his innate beauty (or whatever). He hardly ever frightens the horses with ball in hand despite his occasionally apparent pace. He looks to have the making of a good nuts and bolts player maybe that will do all the little things but little else sadly. And I'll say it again: Foster had a far better first season (admittedly with much better service) than Makinson has had...

true stuff. Even with his apparent pace he almost got chased down by Danny Orr last week - granted, he did go 80m to score but he looked like he was running through a treacle sponge at one point in that run.

I had a look at that to see if it was true. He ran 90m in under 11 seconds wearing ful kit and carrying a ball. The conditions were also a little sloppy at this point, that certainly isn't slow by any stretch of the imagination. Orr had a good angle on him to cut him down so Tommy did well.

He probably was running through a sponge. It's been raining a lot.

It is much harder to run fast with a ball tucked under one arm than when both arms are free.

And the chasers came from further infield and so had an advantage on Makinson, who first had to collect the ball and then leg it from a standing start.

I think the angle of Orr coming in from the side may have mislead you. I don't think there was ever any danger of Orr getting near to him.

**Just watched it on SLTV. Orr gets no where near him. If he was even close, he wouldn't have given up on the half way line.**