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| It ha dcrossed my mind that brown would move either Lomax or Wellens to play as a pivot at 13. He did the ska Edith Kevin brown at one point.
Two points from me though - that we don't really need to sacrifice muscle for another pivot and een if we did want that extra ball player, I think we could be underestimating Flash's all round game.
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| Wello has a fight on his hands to get in the back row on merit, flash has been very good there so I wouldn't want him dropped
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| Quote ="Saint Simon"Wello has a fight on his hands to get in the back row on merit, flash has been very good there so I wouldn't want him dropped'"
I thought Flash was excellent last night.
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| Remember Wello will no longer have to play the full 80 so we could get more out of him.
I have faith.
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| Quote ="Offside Monkey"I thought Flash was excellent last night.'"
Exactly, he has to earn his spot, and is he really better than our other back rowers?
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| Quote ="Saint Simon"Exactly, he has to earn his spot, and is he really better than our other back rowers?'"
It doesn't work like that at Saints though does it?
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| Brown's confirmed that Wello will be loose. Whether we like it, or not, it seems like it's gonna happen. Personally, I like Flanagan at loose, and it would be unfair to bench him to bring Wellens in.
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| I wouldnt mind seeing Lance start at Hooker, and bring Roby on as an impact hooker. I think he is the best in the world at that.
Also like to see Gaskell get a run of games.
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| I don't want to say I told you so but... I told you so.
Lomax's form has completely transformed and looks more comfortable in this position. He doesn't have to worry about making too many tackles and can just run with the ball in space. It's perfect for him.
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| And he's staying there, hope he continues how he's started!
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| interesting to see the stats of this game
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| Nice to see some of us were justified in our thoughts about Lomax moving to full back.
I'm not sure on Wellens to loose, but we'll see how he goes. I can't see him playing a full 80 anyway so I doubt Flanagan will miss out that much
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| In the end unless Wellens rips it up at LF, which I'd be very happy to see happen. Flanagan is the long term solution there.
I think come big games Flanagans tackling will be seen as desirable.
But lets be open minded about Wellens at LF, who knows what he will bring, he's been untested there. Going forwards I imagine he will bring us some variety and attacking possibilities that we've not had from loose forward for some time.
It's only the defensive duties that I have a question mark over, but I doubt Brown will throw him in to flounder there.
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| Quote ="St pete"How many players go we want linking the backs to the forwards?
We've got wilkin and lance in the halves, we've hot lomax acting as a third halfback (like brown stated last night) and now we want wello as well!
Terrible idea, keep it as it is and wello will have to wait for his chance at fullback if lomax gets hurt or loses form.'"
I would go along with Brown and see how it goes with a few games, we,ve just not enough links pivotal players which gives the opposition less to worry about. We had Wellens, Martyn, Long,Cunningham and Sculthorpe all contributing all linking with different options to worry the oppostion.
Start of the season we just had Roby, so the opposition shut down Roby and we are easy to defend against. Add also the fact that Saints never really have a kicking game so we have one man rugby again easy to defend against.
Now there is a possibilty threat of attack options from 1,7,9 and 13, Wilkin is doing a half decent job at 7 so maybe Wellens can emulate the same.
If you look at Wigan, Warrington and Leeds they have been particularly strong in these particular areas maybe Brown is looking for more creativity by any means he can in these areas as well.
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| Quote ="Judder Man"Warrington.'" wellens is just as physical as someone like Grix, who does very well.
Give it a chance, nothing wrong with tinkering at this stage.
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| Quote ="Offside Monkey"wellens is just as physical as someone like Grix, who does very well.'"
Wellens used to pretend to be a fullback. He'd make what 2 or 3 tackles a game normally? The majority of those would be against backs. It'll be interesting to see how he does cope. He could be asked to do 15-20 tackles against props and backrowers. Whilst I have no doubt at all about his commitment, I do wonder how long he'd last in the backrow.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"Wellens used to pretend to be a fullback. He'd make what 2 or 3 tackles a game normally? The majority of those would be against backs. It'll be interesting to see how he does cope. He could be asked to do 15-20 tackles against props and backrowers. Whilst I have no doubt at all about his commitment, I do wonder how long he'd last in the backrow.'"
That's my worry too tbh, I'd like to think that Flanagan will be rotating with Wellens.
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| When everyone is fit I would go with
Lomax
Gardner
Turner
Percival
Meli
Gaskell
Wilkin
Laffranchi
Roby
Puletua
Manu
Soliola
Wellens
Bench
Hohaia
Flanagan
McCarthy-Scarsbrook
Perry
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| Quote ="foz_13"When everyone is fit I would go with
Lomax
Gardner
Turner
Percival
Meli
Gaskell
Wilkin
Laffranchi
Roby
Puletua
Manu
Soliola
Wellens
Bench
Hohaia
Flanagan
McCarthy-Scarsbrook
Perry'" I'd agree with that
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| Quote ="foz_13"When everyone is fit I would go with
Lomax
Gardner
Turner
Percival
Meli
Gaskell
Wilkin
Laffranchi
Roby
Puletua
Manu
Soliola
Wellens
Bench
Hohaia
Flanagan
McCarthy-Scarsbrook
Perry'"
When everyone is fit I would hope that we rotate the pack and not pick the same players each week.
That aside. Given what I've seen so far my choice out of a fully fit squad for a Final would be.
Lomax, Ade, Turner, Percival, Meli, Wilkin, Wheeler
LMS Roby Perry Sia Laffranchi Flanagan
bench
TP Manu Clough (Lance or Walker)
This is only so far and I am open to changing my mind.
Those I would say are not dead certs
Ade (awesome going forwards but has been too flappy hands with the high ball)
Percival, (hard to judge the guy from one game)
Wheeler ( has put his hand up more for this role than Gaskell and Lance so far, but time yet)
Flanagan ( Wellens could play a stormer, we just don't know)
Walker for me has shown real enthusiasm and aggression, I like his tackling, but Lance can't be ignored despite not setting the world alight, he can tackle and run well from dummy half so could be a good interchange hooker in a final, Keeping Roby running at 100% for the time he is on. Lance also gives us cover in the backs in a final.
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| Quote ="bewareshadows"Ade (awesome going forwards but has been too flappy hands with the high ball)'"
He's pretty much always been the same, unlike Makinson who is brave under the high ball and pretty sure too. Gardner was also a shocking tackler on the whole, missing most of his tackles. That he made two humdingers didn't make up for that lack in my opinion. I'd still rather have Makinson on the wing and put Gardner in the second row. I remember him having to play there once because we lost about 20 people to injury in one match and he looked good there.
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| Quote ="SaintsFan"He's pretty much always been the same, unlike Makinson who is brave under the high ball and pretty sure too. Gardner was also a shocking tackler on the whole, missing most of his tackles. That he made two humdingers didn't make up for that lack in my opinion. I'd still rather have Makinson on the wing and put Gardner in the second row. I remember him having to play there once because we lost about 20 people to injury in one match and he looked good there.'"
I think defensively Garder is better and I'm much more sure when Gardner plays. You say to basically ignore the two marvellous tackles he made? Why? If he makes a good play, why ignore it? Or is it because it goes against what you think?
You say Makinson is brave under the high ball and pretty sure? I disagree with that too: look at what happened vs Hull when he went to FB, couldn't catch a cold.
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| Quote ="Albion"I think defensively Garder is better and I'm much more sure when Gardner plays. You say to basically ignore the two marvellous tackles he made? Why? If he makes a good play, why ignore it? Or is it because it goes against what you think?'"
No, it's because he was poor for the rest of it but he shouldn't be because he has years of experience there.
Quote You say Makinson is brave under the high ball and pretty sure? I disagree with that too: look at what happened vs Hull when he went to FB, couldn't catch a cold.'"
He is superb under the high ball and for you to bring up the one instance he was thrown in at fullback, without any preparation, just shows how pathetic your reasoning is.
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| Quote ="SaintsFan"No, it's because he was poor for the rest of it but he shouldn't be because he has years of experience there.
He is superb under the high ball and for you to bring up the one instance he was thrown in at fullback, without any preparation, just shows how pathetic your reasoning is.'"
But you always bring up the one game a season where Meli has an off day ( unfortunately it just happens to be grand finals ). You seem ready to discard facts which contradict your argument and cherry pick incidents which support your argument. If you are honest with yourself you must accept both sides of an argument and not dismiss the facts which are contrary to your argument.
Most of the people on here have their own opinions on all the players in the squad. We do not see the players in training, the coaches do and are in a far better position than us to judge a players abilities and strengths. Brown is the man who is paid to pick the side, and while I may not always agree with him I have to accept he is in a better position than me to select the 17 players every week. He will ultimately be judged on results and therefore we must accept his decisions and support the team.
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| Gardner is a far better winger than Makinson at the moment. Fact. Makinson continues to disappoint me with his lack of development to be frank and is starting to look as though he'll struggle to ever fulfill his early promise.
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