By catching the ball and falling over the line.

Gardner is highly underrated. Being in the right place at the right time, the ability to read your centre and finishing opportunities are all difficult skills to master. His right foot step is lethal near the line (he almost always manages to stand up his opposing winger), he makes very few mistakes (amazing considering he used to be extremely suspect under the high ball) and he's not afraid to go in where it hurts.

The arrow from barrow is the best winger in Super League

"Nurse, nurse!!!"

Gardner's pretty decent with the ball, making decent ground and being a good finisher. His work-rate isn't quite what it could be, but he's generally fine ball in hand. His major problems are in defence, where he's still extremely jumpy, coming in when it isn't needed. It's been a big problem in his game for a while and it doesn't look to have improved recently (up to the WC at least. Seeing him in one game against Wire isn't really enough to make a call on for this season).

Raynor's only really weakness is his lack of height, which means he can be beaten to a high ball when he's got a standing start against an opponent with a running jump. In pretty much every other area he's good at worst. He does a huge amount of work bringing the ball out during exit sets, something he's unmatched in in SL, with a great offload, top class footwork and the ability to get through a tackler to find a good position and a quick play if he can't get an offload away. As a finisher, he's at least as good as Gardner and his kick-chase game is great as well. Defensively, he's a strong tackler and generally makes the right decision when there is a decision to be made.

If Gardner could sort his decision making out, he'd be up there. Currently, though, Raynor's comfortably the best British winger (assuming he hasn't lost anything when he returns to fitness).

Wouldnt swop Ade G for any winger in Super League....not even Karl Pryce!!

Don't need to as long as Gidley is his centre.

Put him outside an run of the mill SL centre and he'll be exposed what he is.

Gareth Raynor but taller?

As a Hull KR fan I have a particular distain for all things Hull FC but Raynor is in a different class to Gardner in almost every respect.

Steady on. You could say he might be better and make an argument for that but different class? Are you havin' a laff? Is he havin' a laff?

I think he must be.

I love it when a fan of another club comes on and describes our own player. In the what...maybe 10 games a year that you get the chance to see Saints, how do you manage to spot these obvious problems in his game which Saints speccies (who watch pretty much every Saints game) don't see ?

Can anybody remember the last time Gardner looked a mess defensively ? I certainly can't, in fact I can't think of a better SL winger at defending his flank and supporting his centre defensively. The decision making of Gardner defensively is one of his strongest qualities.



Raynor is so awesome that he doesn't even run forward. If I wanted to watch a crab, I'd visit the beach. There is no way Raynor is a better winger defensively than Gardner either, not a cat in hells chance. He's quicker than Gardner and that is about it (plus he's better at going sideways, I think Raynor is pretty much the best sideways runner in International RL).



Gardner could never be 'right up there' because he is too slow for a winger. However, in terms of British wingmen, there is absolutely no competition for Gardner, none at all.

Two Posts In And Already A Laughing Stock!...

Do you talk b@ll@cks all the time or do you have a day off, you spout some absolute garbage. Gardner scores the amount of trys he does because he's got the best centre in the comp inside of him and when he doesn't he looks average at best look at the world cup, when he was absolute pants

Oh christ, it must the asylum day out....

Can you highlight where in my post I have discussed the try scoring exploits of Gardner ?

You see, when you read the post (and engage your brain) you will grasp that it is discussing the defensive choices Gardner makes.

The most recent and most glaring example I can give you is his performance in the WC. There have been plenty of other incidents throughout his career though. And not so much 'a mess', more coming in, biting on a wedge or coming in to double up on an opposing centre, leaving a gap on the outside. He can tackle, I haven't questioned that. His decision making is not very good though.



That pretty much ends any chance of a decent debate. If you think that he only runs sideways (you clearly don't, do you? If you did, you'd probably be shocked to learn that their metres per game and metres per carry were pretty similar last year, despite Gardner being in a team that creates many more opportunities, and him being on the wing that profits most from that) there's not much point continuing as it would mean that you know next to nothing about the game. It would be amazing that someone who only runs sideways could manage so often to get his arms through the tackle to offload or that he could bust so many tackles. Plus it would mean that, rather than the actual situation which involves him making extremely valuable and helpful-to-the-team ground away from our line, he be constantly pushed back into the in-goal area when scooting during exit sets. That doesn't happen either though, does it?

And defensively, he very rarely makes the wrong choice (it happens sometimes, but even the best wingers do it occasionally as their natural instinct to stop the ball getting to the outside comes into play) and almost invariably completes the tackle after making that choice.



'Right up there' in terms of being one of the best British wingers. As it is, he falls just short of the top two or three due to his defensive failings. It is something that can be improved though and he just needs coaching away from his natural instinct.

raynor
fox
smith
calderwood

all better than gardner.

and when pryce gets fit he'll be better than him as well.

>s<

Looks like the mighty HKR are going to run us ragged.
There's always next year for us.

Calderwood ?

Last year he scored 2 tries and Gardner scored 26 and yet Calderwood is a better player.

When during the WC specifically can you highlight? This is bearing in mind that during the WC, England as a whole squad looked rubbish due to the superiority of their opponents. The likes of Lockyer and co have the ability to isolate top quality NRL wingmen every week. It is hardly surprising they can do the same to a SL winger. With the exception of the WC, you are refering back to the Gardner of at least 2 years ago, which I refuse to accept as an argument.



So we are discounting the fact that Gardner and Raynor have fairly equal stats purely on the basis that one is at Hull and one at Saints? Have you ever thought there may be a reason in that? Gardner profits mainly from his centre in the last 10 metres of the field. If anybody had the nous to actually watch Saints and not listen to the balls the Sky team say, they would realise that Saints rarely look to isolate the winger except when within 10-15 metres of the tryline (and occasionally from deep in our own 20). This leaves Gardner with basically his chances to finish off in the corner, which he is very good at and his chances to support the pack with scoots from dummy half, which he is very good at also.

As always with Gardner, his stats and performances are to discarded by all because he has a very good centre inside him apparently, yet Raynors not because he has the misfortune to play in a garbage side.



It gets better!!!!
Raynor is justified in his odd cock up as 'it happens' yet Gardner isn't?
Am I supposed to have a real debate with you when it is evident that you are simply another biased, one eyed fan (although with the ability to type better than most)?




Gardner and defensive failings could only be mentioned in the same sentence by someone who hasn't bothered to watch him and is still basing an opinion on performances from 2/3 years ago,

Go and watch some tape of the SL performances of Gardner from the past 2 years and come back. Forget the WC, all that proved is that every single British RL player is overrated beyond belief and not a match for their NRL counterparts (unless they play for Hull I assume).

Raynor is pi$$ poor. As for Calderwood and Pryce





This thread is filled with LOL

How people can bag Ade is beyond me.

Yes, he gets a lot of tries created for him, but he finishes a lot of tries the other wingers couldn't - his strength of finishing in heavy contact is a real talent.

He's also very solid under kicks.

To use the WC performance is fairly pointless, as we all agree that most players performed below par.

He might not be a great player, but I wouldn't swap him for the other players mentioned (also, given that Smith is roundly considered a full back who might well end up playing centre this year, I don't think its a worth while comparison)

I was talking with Dux about wingers, and he made a point that if Alan Hunte was playing now, he'd be the best winger in the comp, whereas when he was playing he was overshadowed by the likes of Offiah, Robinson and Sullivan. We just don't have many great wingers at the mo.

which try/tries in particular was he responsible for conceding?

I was there, and whilst he didnt exactly set the world alight (like the whole squad) I cant recall any mistakes he made.



again, any definitive examples you would care to share?

as there are so many examples of Gardner's defensive failings, I'm sure you wont struggle to recall some.

Look at the stats for the games played this season and fox and Gardner are pretty evenly matched www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009

Look at the stats for the games played this season and fox and Gardner are pretty evenly matched www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009