To be honest I never thought that Warrington was worth the 24-0 score. There pack did give ours a beating but we had enough time and the Warrington line to convert in to points.

I think our defence needs to go up a gear but it's our attack that worries me. Against Wigan we looked like we had no idea and tonight was even worse. The Main problem is playing two young inexperienced lads at halfbacks.

Our kicking game is terrible.

Not many positives but I don't think we are to far off.

I'm not being critical of Gaskell, he looks a prospect, but it's too early in his development to have him paired with another relatively inexperienced player in Kyle. If Leon isn't there to play with Gaskell I think they would be better going with Wilkin against the big teams. It could do a lot of harm to Gaskell's confidence if they leave him to suffer like that all season.

That is wrong. If their pack had given us this mythical beating we wouldn't have spent much of the first half camped in their 20m area. I was sat on the Wire 20m mark in the first half and spent almost all that half looking left towards the Saints fans, which shows how much we were down there.

Wire did well in the spell just after half time but I'd hardly say they dominated our pack given that they scored off just about every possession they had in our 10m area and only ended up with 25 points.

I said the same thing during the week and got shot down by few on here. Tonight wilkin should have played stand off!!!!

Nothing against gaskel but Kyle needs someone to take the pressure off him and wilkin is best we've got at the moment.

God knows why eastmond has changed his game, he no longer takes the line on. Maybe Royce tells him not to or his heads all over the place but unless he takes the line on like he used to then he'll be nothing but a average scrumhalf.

The spell before halftime when we was camped on the Warrington line was due to penalties and repeat sets from drop outs.

To be fair to Warrington, there pack was on top most of the game and they really give it to us in the tackle.

Now this is a little confusing, in the past as you know we have also had enough time on the saints line to convert that territory into points but we have failed on numerous occasions.

Now the media and your own fans put the above down to great Saints try line defence, so basically when the opposition does the same to you they are not worthy, its all down to Saints short comings in front of the try line and nothing to do with how good the opposition have improved in a game against Saints at defending their own line.

Your defense was fantastic. No one with a brain would dispute that. We didn't put it under any real pressure though, so at least part of the blame for the 0 for Saints at HT goes to the attackers.

This in a nutshell,over 60 minutes before he took the line on just isnt right.
I can excuse players not playing well it happens to even the best,what i cant excuse is not giving 100%

Are You stupid? Where have I said it was just our attack being poor?

The Warrington defence was awesome but with the amount of ball we had on your line we'd be expected to score.

We won tonights game down the middle.... nothing eastmond could have done about it. Our forwards dominated and our defence smothered a predictable attack. The short ball to pauleta didnt work (i would have him at wire in a heartbeat though) and you seemed to struggle for ideas after that.

your scapegoating of eastmond is a bit poor to be honest.... he wasnt that bad.

Your main problem was that graham got owned early.... he then spat his dummy out and spent the rest of the game being second best in the tackle.... the rest of your forwards seemed to follow suit.... i thought soliola would be one of your biggest threats and he was non existent.... graham was smashed by monaghan and Carvell and your pack seemed to give up.

LMS worked hard... but he was a little young for the intensity... he will be a great signing though.

You need pryce back quickly..... in all honesty it looks like you need a new 6 & 7 long term.... and a 13

If you dominated us so much down the middle, how come we had so much territory in the first half? Where did all the metres come from as I don't remember Warrington making many mistakes and I don't remember us getting loads of penalties either?

Spot on fella!!!

you got lots of sets from good attacking plays and mistakes at the wrong times.... we then shut up shop and you got nothing.

We made loads of yards with the ball... your forwards never looked like breaking us when it mattered.

Yes for several reasons

1. It wasn't at home and it wasn't at KR.
2. The Saints side didn't have Long and Cunningham in it.
3. After winning two Challenge Cups the excitement of winning a one off league game has diminished. When we were garbage then a win against a good side was as good as we got so when other clubs fans would say "pfft they think it's their Cup Final", but if you never get in big games, that sort of thing is the cup final, its like is someone like Fulham beats Man U their fans go crazy.
4. All through the game I never felt we would lose, which took away some of the edge of the usual Wire v Saints games.

If we'd have beaten Saints a few years ago in a tight game it would have been more exciting way of ending the losing streak.

As for now I feel like I did as a cricket fan when England finally won a series against the West Indies in 2000. If we'd won in 1993/94 or 1995, it would have been great, but it had that anti-climactic feel of something well overdue that had an inevitability about finally happening.

A very honest appraisal.

Thought the whole game was totally surreal. Sans Knowsley Road it was like a weird "who-cares?" attitude had permeated through the crowd. Everywhere I looked there seemed to be people shrugging their shoulders or scratching their heads in absolute perplexity. The team itself was like a thinly visible spectre of former days. The jerseys were there but the flesh, bone and - most importantly - heart were off inhabiting some other dimension.

Set against the backdrop of decades of Saints memories - some glorious, others less-so - it wasn't a terrible performance. We made a few silly mistakes and Warrington, to their credit, played well. Despite the addition of Shenton and the welcome emergence of Gaskell the balance of the side still doesn't look right. Clearly the unedifying saga that is Kyle Eastmond's contract negotiations MUST be resolved before the next match because I think it's plain to see it's having an effect on not just Eastmond' performances but the team's. At the end of the day, the scrum half is the focal point of any side and players need to have total faith in their key playmaker. I didn't see much faith tonight and this was reflected in the display. If Saints don't force Kyle's hand soon I think the potential exists for years of team harmony - which has been just as instrumental to our success as any player - to be put in dire jeopardy. And that simply cannot be allowed to happen.

But more disturbing was the lack of any emotional connection for me. Completely irrespective of the performance - they just didn't seem like my team. Perhaps it's just the ground. I'm not sure. But the disquieting worry is that it isn't...

I agree with that. But it is probably because we were lost. Before the match started, people were wandering around outside wondering how to get to their seats and they were having to be directed. There is no pop side. We can't hear the almighty roar of the fans egging on the team. It's going to take a long time for Saints fans to adjust. Knowsley Road was a very special place in lots of ways. HOwever, no-one around me in the East Stand was 'shrugging their shoulders or scratching their heads'. The East Stand was noisy and actively involved all the way through. But the impact was not as it was when there was the pop side.

As for the team, well it is a different team. We no longer have stars in it. There are a lot of young players in there who have hardly been around five minutes and a lot of well known faces have gone. We totally lack creativity or any player who can think independently. I got the impression tonight that at least half the team were waiting for instructions from the coach about what to do next. But hopefully that will change as the team gels and we learn how to attack without Keiron to barge his way over the line. Or it could be that we are heading into a period of mediocrity. Who knows? Time will tell. I do agree though that the halfback situation needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency.

you must have big hands saddo all those straws you are clutching at

It is always going to be a difficult transition, playing in Widnes is like an away game for the players at present, a lot of people are going to select matches, mid week we were being told virtually sold out and and an attendance not a full house far from it.

Other clubs have suffered for a lot longer period than St Helens will and supporters have stayed loyal!

Yes, I'd like to see Carvell's left hook from a different angle, it certainly took Jammer a while to get up from that one. Does a forearm to the head count as being owned or a cheap shot?

If we show any signs of going through a Bradford or Wigan style transition period there would be rioting and scenes on par with those in Libya and Egypt recently. Our fans are not the type to sit back and accept mediocrity. My 'sack the board' placard might need to come out of the garage if they don't sort things out sharpish.

I only got back from holiday late last night, so had to be content with watching the recording on the sky+ box.

My initial reaction was that of frustration. Although our pack wasn't smashed, Wire did boss the PTB and therefore were getting quicker, cleaner ball. Ours was slow and therefore we strggled to test the defence.
My reaction - Is this what it comes down to? Whoever gets the quick plays wins the game.
However, this morning I've watched the Hudds-Cas game from last week. Neither team were managing particulary quick PTB like wire got last night, but they still managed to get the ball wide to the 3/4s in a manner we don't. Something really needs working on there.

That said, I don't think you'll see Wire play as well as that every week (in defence at least)- they were really possesed at times and they're a seriously big pack to take on, especially when they've got their tails up. At least we've got the hoodoo at the way - no more wondering when the loss will come.

Always worked for Saints and now Wigan, so yes I suppose so but that's not really news is it?

I agree with this the game had a feel of 'pre season friendly' about it. Even the Saints fans didn't seem to care that much.

Spot on. They shut down Roby by dominating in that area. I don't recall us making any serious yardage around the PTB which impacted on the forwards who were taking the ball up.



It's been like that since Super League I. If you dominate the ruck you will put yourself in a good position to win the game. It has always been so.