To be honest, I'm not sure what Tomkins is. Sure, he's big, quick and has good hands. But he doesn't seem to possess a great rugby brain (which is a problem if he's playing at centre) and he doesn't exercise his clear advantage in physicality in defence (which is a problem if he's playing in the pack).

A rugby brain is something you're born with. It's not something you can impart to a player on the training pitch. But running your weight and hitting the same in defence is purely a question of determination and commitment.

His development has been severely impaired by his time mud-wrestling down south. Had he stayed at Wigan I think he would have been forced to address his lack of physical involvement or face being shipped out. Either way, Wigan would be better off than they are right now.

His future really is in his own hands. I guess his performance this year (when he can offer no excuses) will go a long way to determining his legacy for those looking back from the future.

Not sure about envy-o-meter but the arrogance-o-meter is in full swing. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/32299159 "If he'd stayed on we'd have won by 30 points, everyone knows that."

Not sure about envy-o-meter but the arrogance-o-meter is in full swing. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/32299159 "If he'd stayed on we'd have won by 30 points, everyone knows that."

I think if he'd stayed on we'd have won by forty points.

Easy isn't it!

Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"Not sure about envy-o-meter but the arrogance-o-meter is in full swing. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/32299159 "If he'd stayed on we'd have won by 30 points, everyone knows that."'" Won a few games have they? Didnt hear a peep out of him before good friday

Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"Not sure about envy-o-meter but the arrogance-o-meter is in full swing. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/32299159 "If he'd stayed on we'd have won by 30 points, everyone knows that."'" Won a few games have they? Didnt hear a peep out of him before good friday

If we'd had Luke Walsh we'd have won by 60 ...

Funny they didn't put 30 points on a poor 12 man Widnes then isn't it.

The bloke is a complete and utter clown. He had a few weeks where he looked like he had toned it down and his friendship/respect with Cunningham seemed to curb his verbal diarrhoea. But as Pete says, a few wins and now he's back to his usual self.

Oh well, it just makes the thought of beating them and winning trophies later in the year even sweeter.

The blokes a fool! (Cas)

I've always been a fan of Chris Brudge as a centre and he has just completely schooled Dan Sarginson.

Twice.

Yep , made spud look pretty poor tonight.

Wiganers reckon Sarginson is the best British centre



We are right in the if this is the case. Couldn't tackle a dinner.

I thought Turner was shocking until I seen Sarginson tonight. Worst defensive display ive seen by a centre.

At least Sarginson turned up. Warrington put out two stuffed shirts at centre last night.

Yet somehow in the analysis it all seemed to be Joe Burgess's fault.

Just shows how bad the analysis is then.

It was an old school centre on centre lession.

And Sarginson got schooled

. He's still a very good player though

I think Burgess could be making a big, BIG mistake joining the NRL at such a young and inexperienced age. Bad enough that he seems to be making a very large number of defensive errors. Worse still that he seems to specialise in the kind of spectacularly cataclysmic blunders Francis Meli's career was dogged by.

If he makes half the number of mistakes in the NRL they'll bust him down to the lower leagues where a reputation for "howlers" is the devil's job to shake free.

I don't mind cockiness in youth. But cockiness without first doing the job you're being PAID to do is a recipe for disaster. Right now Burgess looks like a player who has already accepted his own greatness. Everything he touches seems to turn to gold and the errors he makes have largely been without consequence.

Unfortunately, the harsh brutalities of the real world have the annoying habit of kicking you in the nuts just when you think you've got this life game licked. At some point Burgess is going to hit the wall. In SL the crash might be little more than a mild bump. In the NRL it'll be whilst travelling at a hundred miles an hour. How he deals with the inevitable carnage will, I think, set the tone for the rest of his career.

He reminds me of a less talented version of Shaun Ainscough, both appear to be superstars in their own lunchtime, both have major flaws in their game. At 25, Ainscoughs career is a distant memory, and I can't see Burgess getting a game in the NRL before he returns to play for Leigh/Bradford/Whitehaven and also disappears into oblivion. The goons need to work on keeping their players expectations rooted in reality, because they appear to produce average players with vastly over inflated egos.

Indeed. The biggest difficulty Bridge had to face was choosing whether to stand Sarginson up or trample over the top of him.

I don't think Carney and Wells (whom I tend to like) once mentioned Sarginson's total failure in his defensive duties but instead spent ages both in commentary and at half time talking about how Burgess should have come in.

There's been some absolutely god-awful defence on show this season. Thankfully we seem less afflicted by this disease than most. But it's difficult to see how long such can be sustained if the players know the other side are likely to cough up twice-fold for every mistake we drop.

It's precisely this problem which has repeatedly prevented us from chiselling out wins against Australia. Only this season it seems to have been exponentially exacerbated.

I've seen some tripe posted on hear over the years but that's up there with the best/worst. Joe Burgess is one of the most level headed / grounded young people you will ever meet.

I really rate Burgess. I was surprised to see him getting pelters from some fans on Cherry and White, recently.

What ever did happen to Shaun Ainscough?

Plays in the Championship for Whitehaven (and was obviously never anywhere near as good as Joe Burgess).