He'd be ahead of Charnley and Hall for me on 2014 form. Makinson's defence and attack on Saturday night were outstanding. He was fearless and skilful and that's just what we need in a player in a big game. He outshone Charnley completely. He was just 2 points behind Robes for MoM. If he had been playing for Wigan or Leeds he would have been a shoo-in for the England team this year. McBanana can't separate form and talent from hype.

Not sure on Charnley, but Hall's actually given a good account of himself at international level. Given how few and far between our genuine international quality players are, I can certainly understand picking one of the few who's stood out previously.

Makinson missing out isn't too scandalous. Burgess looks like he's going to be the real deal.
However, its likely that chances will be few and far between for us at international level and if you've only got half a yard to squeeze in at the corner, we all know Makinson is your best bet to get the ball down.

Although slightly away from a saints perspective but how on earth has Joel Tomkins been put in that team without any place for Elliot Whitehead. Unbelievable decision

Agreed. I'd be furious if I was Whitehead, Tomkins has done precisely nothing to deserve his spot whilst Whitehead has been the best 2nd rower by some distance.

I'm not too bothered about our players missing. Aside from Roby there's really only Makinson who has turned in a consistently good campaign. Perhaps Turner's late season form could have warranted him a spot in the squad but it's not like there isn't any competition for places. The last time we won the league there were players like Gareth Raynor starting on the wing and even at his best he wouldn't have gotten anywhere near this squad. The plus is a full off season of rest which is exactly what KC would have wanted for his first full season as the boss.

We can enjoy the games without the scapegoating that usually goes on afterwards. Get in the mood with this - [url=http://mcclennan.wordpress.com/2014/10/23/four-nations-countdown-shaun-edwards-noble-sacrifice-2/Four Nations Countdown - Shaun Edwards' Noble Sacrifice[/url.

That was an entertaining game although England seemed to make real heavy work of a team I imagine the Kiwis & Aussies will put away with ease. Poor defending at times from England but I thought the half backs combo did well & we do have some threat. Can't help feeling this 4 Nations will be a familiar story to previous years.

Our Backrow was invisible.

i think it wants looking in to so many australian players making themselves unavaliable..(it shows how proud that lot are declining to put on the aussie international shirt)....so it will be a farce because if they get knocked out of the competition it will be because of all the so-called- injured players....ps..isn't kevin sinfield a bundle of fun?

The Aussies could probably comfortably pick 4 or 5 different 17's and still win that tournament.

We're really gonna have to buck up against NZ and Australia. Too much dropped ball, too many penalties, a better team would have put 40/50 on us. Credit to Samoa though, they made a decent fist of it.

My summary also Westerman, Tomkins, Farrell and Ferres didn't do enough. Hopefully O'Loughlin and Whitehead will get the nod next week.

Hodgson was also ineffective but that can't shock anyone. No real replacement for him currently in the squad. Not sure if Clark can go for 80 mins. Shenton was also shown up in defence a couple of times.

On the plus side I think Charnley did some good work in the second half. Watkins looked pretty solid and our props didn't look too bad.

I think we need to get Hardacher into the team some how ideally at full back. We need someone at the back that will at least attempt to catch the ball and he has the go forward we missed today.

Our back 3 where very ordinary, Farrell got going eventually, but for me can,t understand how Joel Tomkins got in the squad over LMS. Westerman needs to bring his club form into the international stage needs to up his game next week.

well it didn't look like that today...the kiwis made em look daft!

Aye, all teams have their off days mate. The Australians hardly ever have 2 off days in a row...unfortunately.

Unless they pick up injuries Charnley and Hall will play every minute of every game.
Makinson would have been on the sidelines, besides the only player he should shift is Burgess.

Front row picks itself.

Saints players were never going to get a game when Roby dropped out.

yea the aussie first team does.....dont think that set of replacements are quite good enough..(untill they play england that is).....21 players withdrawing thats ridiculous..i wouldn't pick half of those who made lame excuses not to play again..if i were tim sheens!

I only saw the highlights of the England game, but Hall seems to be drawn in a few times yesterday.

Not saying makinson would replace him, but people seem to be having a go at Shenton, he seemed alright on the highlights.

Rugby is a tough tough game and most players finish the back end of the year playing with injuries. I think players at some point need to recoup, rest and get right for the following season just like robes as.

I don't believe any Aussie would turn down a chance to play for their country.

21 players didn't withdraw from Australia. 11 players withdrew and half of those most people wouldn't recognise the names of. Assuming Cherry Evans recovers from whatever injury he sustained against NZ and Inglis recovers from his virus (very charitable of him, playing with a stomach bug) then Slater aside and possibly a couple of forwards included they won't be much different from the usual. Cronk is still there and so is Cameron Smith.

And besides, if they get booted out of the comp by England maybe it'll be a wake up call to the myopic NRL that internationals do actually matter. If over 47,000 are happy to turn up for a double header in Brisbane then clearly the fans want internationals. The NRL and media down under need to catch up.

Agree. I'm going for a lie down.


I've just posted this on the Wigan site.

"Here's something that probably won't get mentioned on the "national press"

There were 2,000 more fans at the Suncorp yesterday than at the same venue last week for the Australia v NZ Rugby Union game.

Let's hope that our own RL press at least mention it."

SaintsFan - the bigger losses were Hayne, and in particular Thurston, who is by some distance the best playmaker in the world. Of the forwards probably the biggest loss was Scott, who is a fantastic prop.

Australia looked poor against NZ in part because they lost DCE and Inglis during the game. How would England look if they lost Tomkins and Widdop during the game in terms of attack?

England's defence was really bad, and the ball retention awful in the first half. If they 'defend' like that Australia could play their team from the second half vs NZ and still win comfortably.

The Kiwis were too big for the Aussies on the weekend. You can't face man mountains without props. It's difficult enough trying to front up against them when you've got your first choice pack on the field. The Kiwis knew they could make the yardage and they were pummeling them in the second half. I'd say we'll never have a better chance but I've said that enough times over the years to know that you can't take anything for granted against the Australians. They are the ultimate big game team.

England have named an unchanged side for the Australia game. O'loughlin mustn't have recovered and whitehead must have slept with McNamara's missus.

What's the point in taking lockers if he's not going to play?