Glad someone else mentioned it. The senior players just don't want to know. There is no enthusiasm at all, no pride, no commitment. There have been so many examples of it recently and a few tonight. The one that stood out for me particularly was how with less than 3 minutes to go in the first half and Saints down by 10 (ish?) and Widnes knocked on on their own 20. You would expect the team to charge to the scrum to stop the clock, desperate to get back into it. Instead Widnes formed the scrum before we did. They then ran in another try and we stood under the sticks silent, not one player even attempting to rally the troops.

We need a captain as much as we need a half back and a pack.

The problem with that is there is only 1 man to blame for that. Could we do the unthinkable and sack another coach?

There's no leader at all in our team. There hasn't been one since Graham left.

Beyond the attitude problem there clearly is at the club, there are some tough decisions that have to be made. The likes of Perry, Laffranchi, Howarth, Hohaia and Wellens HAVE to go. Any extensions amongst those names and serious questions have to be asked.

LMS needs a rocket. He's a decent player but never in a million years a starting prop. Go back to using him from the bench for impact and tell him his future is on the line.

Nathan Ashe's performance tonight was one of the worst individual performances I have ever seen. He simply cannot player another game for Saints. After that, for me, he doesn't get another chance.

Nathan Brown doesn't come out of this without criticism either. I'm not sure about him at all. Like Potter his desire to coach the club and for the club to be successful has to be questioned. He seems to be going through the motions as much as everyone else at the club. Why was Lance Hohaia on the bench tonight? We had 3 centres on the field (Turner, Jones and Percival) and virtually every point Widnes scored came down our left centre channel, where it looked like Greenwood was playing left centre.

The team's defending has to be questioned as well. Widnes scored on almost every visit to our 20. The try they scored under the sticks was farcical, the Widnes player couldn't believe his luck.

The BBC had Jones down as playing stand off with Greenwood in the centres, this true?

Until they all sign 1 year extensions at the end of the season?
The club is broken from the top all the way down to us fans at the bottom. The terror of what might happen over the next 2 games wont help.

Put a fork in us!

Yes it was. Greenwood at centre, Jones at stand off and Hohaia on the subs.

No wonder we looked utterly lost. What a bloody ridiculous set up.

I'm sure it was Turner at stand off.

I don,t think we really know who was playing in the centres and halves, the only thing we were sure of was that Makinson was full back.
In a normal saints side, Ashe would have been taken off his contribution was near enough zero.

We would have been better playing our U/19 team same result but at least we would have seen a rugby team in a saints shirt.

Some harsh comments on Ashe - he did brilliantly to set up Laffranchi's try.

That was what they announced over the tannoy, but they didn't line up like that. Jones played right centre, Greenwood left centre, with Jordan Turner at stand off. He stunk the place out, but looked great in comparison with Nathan Ashe, who was truly pathetic.

Wasn't that Howarth?

Turner lined up in the centre, scrumhalf, stand off and also packed down in the backrow.

And what's with the false announcements/line ups anyway? Very silly.

Harsh! He's getting off lightly, he was awful!

I'm guessing someone got injured in the warm up? Possibly Sia?

Ashe is one of those players who I've always wanted to do well, but I've never seen perform.

Sia was out before the game.

The team he picked first and told the players was

Makinson
Ade
Turner
Jones
Percival
Wello
Ashe
Perry
Hohaia
TP
Laffranchi
Greenwood
Thompson

Hohaia
Walmsley
Lms
Clough or Howarth

Was that the kick through? That was the only thing he did that WASN'T average.

Dire in defence, dire with the ball, his decision making was shocking and his kicking game was shocking. At one point, he aimed a kick for the left hand corner (looking on from the west stand), completely mis-kicked it and it ended up going the other way.

Writing was on the wall last week. I came on here and said he looked terrible, but people just put it down to it being his first game. You could instantly tell he isn't good enough.

He looked reluctant to pack down, I think one of our forwards went AWOL and we couldn,t form a scrum to pack down and stop the clock.
I,m sure it happened a second time and Gardner packed down as well.

Dont forget we've got Lomax, Roby, Soliola, Meli, Wilkin, Flanagan, Clough, Wheeler, Swift and Walker all to come back. Whilst we still won't be top bracket it won't be half as bad as it is now.