He could have said no - he is McManus's 'right hand man' when all is said and done - but since he said yes then hiding behind his claim not to be a coach or not wanting to do the job or what have you is no excuse for doing nothing.


Nope. He should have stuck with Simmons until Brown came in. Leaving the team without an experienced coach is a big error and the error was compounded IMO by putting two people in place who are inexperienced and way too close to the people they are now supposed to be in charge of.

He never has been, or wanted to be, a head coach in Super League. This has to be remembered when criticising him. Eamon McManus asked him to fill in the role temporarily, not the other way round. I personally think McManus should recognise this and ask Daniel Anderson to take over the team untill the end of the season.

I honestly dread to think where we'd be now of Royce was left in charge. I know you really rate him but it wasn't working and I can't see us of winning the games we have with him in charge.

IMO McManus was right to sack him and I believe we've improved slightly but we still ain't a well coached side.

He can't really refuse it can he? He's a saints lad and offered the job on short term basis, it's just to good to turn down.

He wasn't up to the job, but we'd be in a sight better state if the players had just gotten on with their jobs, acted like professionals and toughed it out 'til the end of the season under him. Now we're in an absolute mess with a backline who may as well leave the field every time we have the ball (not that we were much better last season, but at least we were better), with no chance in the playoffs short of a plague striking Wigan, Leeds, Catalan and Warrington simultaneously, and with little prospect of it changing until next year.

I could have sworn we have beated Leeds and Warrington already this season. The only team I fear us playing is Wigan. No one else.

Still doesn't mean I am enjoying this season.

We'd be fighting hard for the wooden spoon by now if we'd done that. You may have the memory of a goldfish but I recall clearly just how bad we were under Simmons this year.

It needs to dawn on Jon Wilkin that the value of "Jon Wilkin" TM, (c), Patent Pending, All Rights Reserved is directly proportional to something called "Performance". It's all well and good writing for the BBC or being SKY's "go to" guy when they need someone to shill their new Monday Night SL programme. But if he thinks his social circle of media hacks and corporate whores will be there for him should his form fall off a cliff he's very much mistaken.

Once he established himself Scully too followed the lead of media-savvy players such as Hanley and Offiah and every week there seemed to be yet another pundit's slot or razor endorsement. But Scully EARNED the right to every opportunity he carved out for himself by never playing with anything other than distinction on the pitch.

Earlier this season I questioned whether Wilkin's priorities were aimed more at his testimonial than his game. I hope this isn't true and his form collapsing at precisely this moment in time is co-incidental. But if it is he's going to discover the hard way that putting himself in the public eye in no way invalidates the old adage that you're only as good as your last game.

We've beat warrington away and Leeds home/away so we are certainly capable of beating them.

I agree that we ain't much better under rush but we are better and won all but three games with him in charge and that was top of the league three times.

Not as bad as we were against Wigan on Sunday and that was with Robes on the field. But don't let that fact spoil your party.

The season hasn't ended yet. We still have to play them all again, including the teams we lost to, and this time with no 'new coach syndrome' to help us along.

Totally spot on! Couldnt be put any better!

I've said it for many years now, wilkin is all about his media work and to busy thinking about getting Phil Clarkes job when he finishes playing than he is about playing for saints.

I must admit, I was sick when we give him four years!

He annoyed me on Sunday. Instead of spurring the team into action after the mass exits from the pitch and working his butt off in attack and defence, he gives away penalties and puts massive pressure on us. The first class prat.

I take it it's not Jon Wilkin you are friends with at Saints then

I know him but only thru my mates. He's a nice lad to be honest, always pointe and says hi.

Nothing against him as person but just don't rate him as a player.

I know, I know he played well at Leeds once and runs good lines, I know, I know.

I don't know when you'll realise this but because somebody played well in one game it means they're destined for greatness. I don't see why you can't see it. For example:

Gary Wheeler - Played well for half a match v Wigan last year
Michael Shenton - Played well for 3/4 of a grand final
Jon Wilkin - Played well against Leeds years ago

The above means that these players can at no point receive any criticism and these games MUST be directly referred to whenever any negative posts about them appear.

It's the 'we were the best thing since sliced bread last week' comment that gets me, just like the after the last Wigan game he thought we weren't far off. At first I thought he was just playing mind games but I think he actually believes that.

Leeds were awful last week, and aside from one decent move we were woeful in attack. It was only the ridiculously quick play the ball during that game (Ganson special) that got us the result, and that is our plan A. We don't have a plan B. Rush also seems to believe in the Anderson style of coaching, that completion rate alone will win you games. Against most teams it will, but not against teams who can attack from anywhere, and five drives and a kick would probably get you a decent completion rate but wouldn't win you much.

I suppose our season depends on the halves clicking and the rest of the team giving them the right options. A decent three quarter line would help and if given space the current one could probably do some damage, but you can't polish a turd.

Matter-of-factly declaring that we would be worse off under Simmons doesn't make it true. Yes, we did play poorly early in the season. But you cannot seriously argue there was no chance whatsoever we'd bounce back. After all, we'd done something similar last season with most of the same players.

At the time fans derided our form in the Hull and Salford games. Yet both those clubs have carved out excellent results against good opposition. The latter even turned over the very same team whose coach we are pinning all our hopes on.

In any case, I'd argue some of our worst performances have come under Rush. Yes, we've only lost to Wigan. But the MANNER of those defeats has been depressing. And let's not forget the fact that Widnes came within an inch of making us look like utter fools.

In hindsight Royce wasn't the right man for the job. But the EVIDENCE (you know - that Grand Final thingy) suggests he was nowhere near as bad as many fans claim. If McManus was going to can him he should have done it either at the end of last season or this. Putting the fortunes of the club into the hands of a man with no real experience for an entire season was a stupid decision. Even if it does work out it would only take a collapse in Huddersfield's form to leave us in the unenviable position of waiting for a coach we might not want.

Well, as I mentioned elsewhere, in the latest Saints podcast Rush says he is in touch with Anderson on a weekly basis and he did spend around a season as Anderson's deputy while we awaited a new assistant coach.

Anderson will be around whilst he's over here for the Exiles.

Spot on.


Absolutely. Both have improved and we still have to play them again.


I agree entirely.


Exactly.

The bit about Hudds is what continues to concern me in relation to the appointment of Brown, especially given our lack of fire.

[iBecause the players had thrown their toys out of the pram and were no longer playing for him!!!![/i What is so difficult about this for people to understand? He may have been **** but we still (practically) won a GF with the guy and nearly the same players just a few games earlier, with little difference between the team that mullered Wigan twice and was well on top against Leeds and the shambles against Bradford except for individual player performance. If the players had put in 1/4 of the effort in the Hull/Bradford/etc. games [iwhen they weren't turning up[/i that they put into the Leeds/Warrington games [iafter[/i they'd gotten their way then we would now be performing a lot better and be looking a lot healthier for the rest of the season. Simmons has been shown up as far from being a top SL coach and needed to go at the end of the season. But Rush is being shown up as being not a SL coach at all.

Mugwump my lad, you talk a lot of sense. There's some hope for you yet

Sounds as if Rushy has slipped into our old 'Brian Noble' philosophy of its not how you start its how you finish blah blah blah. Expect a dire season, with a couple of playoff wins. Oh how times change

When Northampton and Mugwup agree surely that's a sign of the apocolypse.

Whilst we are not great, we are more organised. Rush and Cunningham(interesting we've now seperated them and MR is getting all the flack) seam to have taken us on a basic game plan which works against most SL outfits, is far from enertaining, but they have simply no interest in managing players.

However I do believe that every cloud has a silver lining. This extended period is allowing to see some home truth's.
I've rated Wheeler from one 30 minute spell, but this constant run shows that it's not something he can do on a regular basis. Lance can't say he's not been given any chance at half back, until he got a run it could have been a case of us not playing well but thinking that maybe lance could change it all if he got a run at half back.

Wellens the mind is willing but the body just cannot do it and he is being asked to do more than ever to make up for failings elsewhere in the team, but has been ghosted past by too many players for it to be a one off.

I was an advocate of getting rid of Royce when we did and, to be honest, I stand by it. My mood, which mirrored that of most after the Hull and Bradford was at an all time low. We lost to those two sides without them doing very much, to be honest (save a bit of magic from Turner).
I genuinely think those performances were going to have a severe detrimental effect on next years ST sales if they were allowed to continue, which I think would have been at the forefront of McManus's mind.
What he did by sacking Royce was to partially nullify any lack of performance for the rest of this season, knowing that it could be attributed to a temporary coaching staff and that people would be looking forward to a shiney new dawn under a new coach.
I'm not sure what went on with Royce but I don't think we're were going to see a turn around like we did last year under him, I think things had gone too far.
Whilst the Wigan results have been very hard to stomach, we have beaten every body else we've come up against. I'd be wary of playing Wire again, but apart from that I'm reasonably confident about our pack grinding out a win.
Is it also worth pointing out that I reckon Wigan look better this year than last?

Most of us have vented our frustration that Gaskell hasn't been brought back in. We all think its obvious that he'll improve us. Rush, however, seems intent on keeping the same 17 every week. Its possible that he thinks that that side will win every 4 out of 5 games and finish a resepctable position - not a bad stint for a caretaker manager.

Whilst I can understand that point of veiw, I find it curious that a coach who's made his name developing young players is so reluctant to experiment with players and indeed, put some faith in a young lad that is at least partially proven.

I don't particulary like Rush when he's interviewed, the flippant and sarcastic answers grate on me a little.
As they said to Shaun McCrae when he was given the coaching role - "You've got two jobs as Sants coach. One - win a trophy. Two - beat Wigan."
Unless you're doing one of them at least occasionally, you can't be smug.