I thought it was one dull match. I hate that kind of match. Two defensive teams bashing into each other. Hudds making a bollox of their numerous try-scoring opportunities just to frustrate me (but not surprise me, since they do it every time Wigan or Leeds visit town!).

I thought Warrington looked great against Leeds, that's what I said. Not that they looked great at any other time. But I prefer the way Warrington play to that dull bash fest we had last night. Good defence doesn't have to equate to a rugby union style snoozeathon. Each to their own though.

Good!

This game was totally engrossing.. Bet u couldn't take your eyes off it! Yes defence was the order of the day .. And what defence the Wigan side display.. Awesome. Let's not forget Wigan were missing a number of key players.. They set their stall out to blunt the hudds attack and play off the back of it. It's called tactics.. It's worth pointing out Wigan were top points & try scorers last year so before u wax lyrical about the wire performance (against a mediocre Leeds side) and dis this wigan teams attacking prowess .. Take a look at the facts.

As you say each to their own.

Defence is just as important as attack, so I admired the way Wigan defended last night. I think we did something similar last season at Huddersfield away and it was rightly applauded. They also scored a few nice tries, particularly the two in the 2nd half so they weren't completely blunt in attack either.

Warrington base their game on a strong attack, Wigan more a strong defence but both are capable of doing both sides of the game extremely well on their day. At the moment, you'd have to say they're the best two teams, despite Cas' early season form.

I agree, can't knock a win up there with that many injuries.

Although the defence is fantastic, and you're correct in the point about them being a team, I disagree about the attack.
I too, tomkins aside, don't think they have particulary dangerous individuals, but we know how well they can move the ball how wide, quickly to find space for the centres, part of that is obviously working hard on skills and passing, but its effect is also aided by the consistant threat of forward coming back towards the PTB looking for the short pass, sometimes they take it and it always takes a decent tackle to stop the runner.

Compare it to our set up, when the ball goes behind the first runner to our half back, the defence is never fooled into thinking the dummy runners going to get it, probably because they're walking. The was a point in the QUins game when flannery was the first (dummy) runner and when the ball actually went to him he looked completely suprised and almost dropped it.

In a salary capped game, of course the coach is always going to be the major key, and Wigan appear to have the best about at the moment. Anyone who can play Amos Roberts full-back and still get his team to win is obviously talented. We have to get the whole team working in both attack and defence, and then we'll see our talent start having affect. I'm 99% sure that our squad coached by a mcguire clone would be able to out perform wigan. Here's hoping that Royce's slow start is mearly the affect of trying a complete clean slate and things are still falling into place.

I can't help wonder you're reasoning here. For a start, Charnley was playing on the wing and Marsh the centre. If Wheeler could string more than single appearences together, I'm pretty sure he'd be out performing them easily and Lomax appears to be turning into a very competant SL player with good potential beyond that.
If you were to say that you thought Mossop and Farrell where better than Ashurst and Dixon, I'd start listening, although I'd raise you Cloughy and note that I think there's subtle age differences.

Beyond that, its ALOT easier for young lads to come in when the firt team is in tip top order like it currently is at Wigan. Besides, if a youngster had given a performance to the level of Marsh did, but in a Saints shirt, we'd be getting barracked by Saddened about how he was just a space filler.

James Graham and James Roby are proof of this.

The fact we could have Hardman at full back and have him look competent is proof of that!

Charnley will end up in the centre and looks alot more comfortable at super league level than wheeler does and don't forget wheeler has also played wing for saints.

Mossop, farral, Hanson and Joel Tomkins are top quality young forwards where dixon, ashurst, magennis and cough ain't in the same league.

IMO marsh had also looked more well adapted to super league than lomax. IMO lomax ain't progressed, he's still at the same level he was at the start of last year.

Just ask yourself and be honest which youd rather have at saints:

Lee mossop
Liam Farrell
Joel Tomkins
Harrison Hanson
Charnley
Marsh
Sam Tomkins

Or

Lomax
Wheeler
Eastmond
Dixon
Ashurst
Cough
Magennis
Gaskell

I know what I'd rather have.

I wouldn't swap Charnley for Lomax or Wheeler tbh but as for Marsh on his showing so far i'd swap him for both. He is getting better in defence but he plays the game with his head down and I just can't see him cutting it at centre.

the reason wigan manage to form such a impenetrable defense is because they seem to be able to lie on in the tackle seconds longer than any other team would be allowed to do! this Allows them vital time to organise there defence line. every time hudds copied Wigans tactics they where penalised !

you can try and pick holes but you wont see a better " team" performance than the one from Wigan last night

the number of usual starters they had missing would have flattened most squads- their defence was of NRL proportions and Nathan Brown summed it up " we would have beaten most teams other than wigan tonight"- he's right Hudds werent too far off - prob dropped a bit too much ball but you could put that down to Wigans defensive strength.

It may not have been a real thriller but it was properly coached Rugby from Wigan and if you want competitive and intense competition we need more of that-

and Barring a mass of injuries For Wigan - 13 teams are battling for one place at OT

and one stat to bear in mind St George leaked an average of 12 per game last season in winning the NRL - Wigan are currently doing that number - defence does win games

Disagree.

People that go down that route (and i include some bitter coaches amongst these) are starting to look very foolish.

One of Wigans key advantages over the opposition is that they are fitter than the opposition and their techinique is technically superior.

Huddersfield are very strong in defence too but a number of their forwards looked shattered in the second half, when fatigue sets in we then burn team off out wide.

I think numbers into the tackle is one of Maguire's main methods. I've watched Saints recently and it's rare we get any more than 2 into any tackle, usually it's one with another groping around the fringes. Wigan often get three or four involved, which naturally takes longer to resume play.

I agree that defence is as important as attack but it is the style of defence that I am at odds with. There is no reason for three and four man tackles with the wrestling element to prove a good defence. That is just slowing the game down, presumably to ensure that the handful of really gifted players Wigan actually have can do their business. Wise tactics. However, it makes for a dull match. Warrington can do great defence but they don't do it Wigan's way. Hudds do. Put them together and man, it was boring. Frustrating too, mind you, because Hudds were so incompetent in fulfilling their many opportunities. Had they at least scored more, as they should have done, then the attacking edge would have balanced the defensive dullness to some degree.

No, give me Wire -v- Leeds or Cas -v- us or some other combination of more expansive types of rugby league (and in our case PLEASE NOTE! I am projecting into a hopeful future), with great defence on offer but none of that three/four man in wrestling show.


And I prefer the Warrington version to the Wigan one. In Superleague terms, Wigan -v- Hudds was always going to be a snoozefest for me but I had hoped that Hudds would have been grown up about the matter and not behaved like rabbits in the headlights again. Alas, they still have a significant way to go in conquering their 'big game' nerves.

Watch and listen to last nights game again, don't listen to the crowd asking for a penalty, but listen to the ref shouting move. We don't move untill the ref shouts, as soon as he does, we start to. If there are 3 or 4 men in the tackle it does take longer for them to peel away than it would if there where one in the tackle. But putting three or four into each tackle drains energy, something we have improved dramatically under Bitcon (sp)

Spot on.

Alot of people in this country seem to think a good defence doesn't count as part of being a top team. We defend for our lives and play at a huge intensity. We make it hard for other sides to play and they have to come up with some special plays to break us down.

If every other side in the league defended like Wigan or even Huddersfield for that matter we'd have a much better and exciting league. It would improve attacking standards across the board because players would have to improve their skills to break down these defences.

The game lags behind the NRL at the moment not in pace or strength but in doing the basics right. As a national side when we play the Australians we struggle to play at that intensity for 80mins because we don't have to do it in the league. We get sloppy and don't do the basics as well as the Australians because in Superleague you can get away with a few mis placed passes or lazy kick chases but you can't in the NRL because you'll get punished.

A great example of the challenge our national side faces came 2 weeks back when we went to Salford. We'd come off the back of a brusing encounter with St George the week before and didn't play anywhere near our best and went through the motions for long periods. The end result..........a 32-16 victory even after playing that way and that can't be right. If St George had gone home and played in the same manner they'd have been beaten soundly by any other side in the NRL. They didn't play like that because they knew that couldn't be enough and thats the difference.

Superleague just doesn't give our national players that week in week out challenge that the NRL gives it's players and due to that our players become sloppy and don't do the basics well enough.

Wigan vs Huddersfield last night was played like an NRL game and players had to produce something special or hunt a mistake to claim a try. There was no walking through defences or just working an overlap with pure ease like happens in most games and the sheer physical nature of the contest was a joy to watch.

It's games like those that will improve our league and our national side not games between Cas and Salford that finish with 80 points in them.

Cas would be above you if they won this weekend however, so not fair to slag them off really.

Aye a tad harsh on Cas as they've been very good so far but will they last the pace?

Not really slagging these sides off but pointing out facts. Take Salford and HKR last night or HKR and Crusaders last week. Both of those games were high scoring and whilst good to watch i'm sure they can't be going too far to improving those players skill levels with defences like that.

It was bloody boring to watch! The only reason me and my mates continued to watch it was in the hope that Hudds would actually manage to finish off one of their many try-scoring opportunities. Ten minutes to go and we gave up!


Bloody hell, if that's the way we are going then my watching of rugby league will soon end. Hopefully all the other teams will adopt Tony Smith style approach: great defence but open, attacking rugby league. Save our sport from three man pileys and rolling mauls!

so much moaning, and yet you'd give anything for your garbage team to be at that level

I'd rather have my 'garbage team' than the goons any day of the week! We're a far better looking lot, for a start off.

It sounds like you've seen more of Charnley and Marsh than I have, but I'll tell you this, I'd take a fit Gary Wheeler in the centre infront of all but 2 other english centres (3 if Gleeson didn't have so many problems). You used the words comfortable, but Wheels has never had a problem slotting in and has never looked out of place at SL. "A fit Wheeler" is a bit of an oxymoron, but for arguments sake.....
Lomax will also have a good future (at least) in SL.

I mentioned the forwards like Farrell through Dixon, but its interesting to recall (i'm pretty sure) that there were quite a few detractors of Joel Tomkins in you go back a few years (when Wigan were poor and he was a similar age to the other forwards we mention), but look how different he looks now? And as for the "who would you rather have" question well, I know I'd rather have Graham, Perry, Puletua and LMS than Prescott, Coley, Lima and Fielden; but at the moment, I wouldn't be betting on Saints in a derby match.