LMS shouldn't share the 13 role, he should be dropped. He's proven he's to small, lightweight and scared to be a front line prop. Today he's shown he can't defend in the edge to save his life so can't play second row.

Why should we put him in if he can't do his job?

He's a big time Charlie, walking around like he's got two rolls of carpet under each arm. He likes the show pony stuff of scoring a try but doesn't like the rough touch aspect of playing prop.

If he can't do his job of being a prop the don't play him and put someone on who will at least try!

I didn't say prop, or second row, I said lock. Where, he has proven in the past, to be his best position.

I, also, didn't say he should be ahead of Wilkin right now

so what I posted above doesn't preclude him being dropped in the short term

The is better 13s at saints than him so he shouldn't play.

He's a embarrassing excuse for a rugby league player and a show pony. He belongs back at London in the championship which IMO is his level. He will love running thru semi pro players.

Who? Wilkin? He had just as bad a game today. Flanaghan? See my bit about "skating by on defence" charnock? Do we need another game maker when we can't win the forward battle? Soliola? Better in the second row.

Lms has his flaws, and is woefully out of form. But removing him forever just isn't an option in this day and age. So we have to use him to hamstring ourselves least.

Jones, Wilkin, walker, Sia, Manu, Thomson have all played the 13 role and all played it better than LMS.

Jones should be left at centre. (On another note, turner should be left out next week, Percival and jones as centres, and let turner put pressure on Percival to win his place back.)

Wilkin has played as badly since Wakefield away as lms. Personally, I think it's because both feel too comfortable in the side, hence play em off each other and compete for the shirt.

Sia is better further out wide, and I'd rather he was playing longer minutes, and being more involved in the leadership of the side.

Manu is injured, and is better served as more impact second row. He also wasn't in great form before he was injured either.

Walker and Thompson are young, and still unsure on whether they're ready to play week in week out. Especially if greenwood gets a good run (who is more deserving than either)

So we stick Lms in just because he's Lms?

I'd rather play wello there than him.

Can't you see how awful this guy is? He's absolutely shocking!

Again, I've said he should be dropped for next week. I'm not defending his performance. What I am saying is, If and when he plays again, it should only be at 13. Same with Wilkin.

Play Wilkin next week at lock. If/ when he plays poorly, bring lms in and keep Wilkin out. If/when lms plays poorly drop him for Wilkin. Etc etc.

Worse than that he lacks self awareness still believing he is a superstar
and carrying on like one. Mr High Five

Exactly my thoughts on him.

Brown played a blinder putting the two show ponies on one side.

This is in danger of becoming a love-in, but this is right. I actually think that there's no real excuse for full-time professional athletes to be as knackered after 10 minutes as some of our props seem. Jamie Peacock is 36, for Christ's sake, and is usually running the same way after 70 minutes as he is after 7 minutes. The pack need to take a long hard look at themselves fitness-wise.

But by far the biggest problem is out lack of aggression. We just don't have any. None. Every team we play has a couple of players who are nasty, aggressive, and intimidatory. Today, for example, you've got Ablett and Delaney being toerags to the opposition in every collision. Wigan have SOL leading by example. We have nothing. We have plenty of size - Greenwood and Soliola are big second-rows by league standards. We have some very big props. But I saw more natural aggression in my girls' U15 school team than I can see in this Saints squad. One of the things which made James Graham so vital to us, was his aggression. Before him, Scully was nasty too. But now, we have nobody. Our pack are bigger than most, and more talented than most, but they are being put on their s every week by smaller, less talented packs who know that they can bully our soft lads into submission.

Mostly agree apart from us having more talent than other packs which I totally don't not agree with.

Walmsley - good player in spells. Needs to be spelled or waste of time having him.

Roby- great player but shadow of himself.

Amor - quality.

Mose - looks awful.

Lms - awful.

Wilkin - to small, to slow.

Manu - still decent but looked sluggish this year.

Sia - great player but struggling with the lack of support.

Laffranchi - awful.

Would be unfair to call any of the young forwards.

Look at Mose past playing history.

Released by the roosters.

Released early from panthers.

When the money is so strong in the NRL, how have we secured him? The answer is, no NRL team wanted him or would match what we paid.

He's basically a slight upgrade on Josh Perry in the fact he's actually out on the field and not sat in the stands.

Spot on. The only mitigating circumstance is for Roby who is being systematically burnt out.
Saints invented two hookers now we insist on one hooker and one half back.
Roby is slowly morphing into a Potter style based on the the lack of runners
and the opposition targeting him.

Jones is a fair shout in the second row. He is doing well.

Roby had been ruined and the fact he's going with wello as the utility over lance Hohaia is contributing to this.

I didn't mention Jones, he's played well but I don't know what he is.

What makes it even more frustrating is that we waste a bench spot by having Wellens there. Surely his space would be better off being used on an interchange hooker?

Who is your interchange hooker?

I think most would prefer lance as a utility player or if he's playing at 6 could slot in at 9 to give Roby a rest.9

Hohaia would be the obvious choice with Wheeler at 6. Or give one of the lads from the academy a chance.

Fozard didn't embarrass himself vs widnes, what harm could it do?

The problem with using hohaia at 9 is wheeler - who honestly could trust him to play week in week out?

It's got to better having a player doing a good 30 min spell giving robes a rest than having wello sat on the bench for 66 mins each week.

I agree entirely. The amount of work Roby is getting through is phenomenal, but it's really getting to him. He had a good game today though. Our current top 5 tacklers:

[size=85[code
Roby 370
Wilkin 219
Soliola 213
Jones 187
Laffranchi 181
[/code[/size

Aka Roby is doing the work of 2 grafters!

I tell you what. Who has been missing since we started losing?????
Laffranchi. I thought he was good his first season. Over powered in his second. But this 3rd season has made one thing clear to me. He will do the graft. He tackles. Sure he could not punch his way past the big fella's but he does the stuff no one cares about until we lose some. Before we were losing it was all about having big go forward.

Now we are losing it's all about defense. Well you need that defense, not everyone can be an impact prop.

I would have no problem putting Laffranchi in my first team from now to the end of the season.

Brave statement on here

but equally true. Laffranchi wins the ruck whilst tackling, which is our massive problem recently.

As I said at the time, laffranchi isn't the forward to win you momentum, but he's very capable of ... Pausing the momentum battle, whilst Amor/ walmsley rest on the bench (if that makes any sense) - the stats does back it up. Also, laffranchi generally made a point of getting up on the kickers and putting them under pressure. I think I could put in decent kicks with the time we allowed Leeds to today.

Agreed, and by doing all this work in defence, we are losing his running from dummy half which 90% of the time gets us on front foot and we get a roll on.