Watkins got the ball five times and knocked on four times. Had a mare today.

Based on his performances in SL, no. He was solid, and provided some much needed control, and shape, but lets not go overboard here, he was the best English half in the series, but mainly because the other 2 were pretty rubbish.

Organizing, and a half decent kicking game should be every halfbacks bread, and butter. Unfortunately, England don't seem to be able to produce many halves with those key attributes, hence the reason why Smith's performance today has been praised so highly. It can't just be because they don't play in the NRL either, because Widdop seems to lack all the qualities you would associate with a world class halfback. He is a tremendous defender to be fair to him.

Has anyone ever seen Widdop play well ? Looks very average to me and makes more meters running sideways than forward. He doesn't seem to me able to control a game at all.

Looks a very very average player

Because he doesn't have the electrifying pace of a Eastmond or an eye for a gap like Burrow's in his pomp, Matty Smith doesn't and has never got the credit he deserves.

He brings balance, structure and an intelligent kicking game. Had we not carted him off, them oh so nearly defeats in play off semis etc when we instead chose to run with the Eastmond's, Lomax's and Gaskell's, we might have won something in those famine years.

The Michael Carrick of Rugby League in my opinion.

Cool. He cost us the games against Australia after he was unable to turn a massive size and power advantage in the forwards into territory.

Level par. Maybe one under.

Widdop is more of a worry than Smith. I've watched him closely in the NRL and went from being convinced England had a world class stand off to being worried we had one who looked the part but was in fact beyond ordinary. He needs to straighten his game up a lot and run more directly at the line than he does. As it is he tends to run the outside backs out of space or pass so far in front of the defence that they have plenty of time to shuffle along following the ball.

Widdop needs to improve his game a lot next season. I'm not sure he will.

I like Matty Smith, but I think its a case of him being more "steady at every level" than anything else.

It a bit like painting with numbers with Smith, he'll do the things he can every week, to the best of his ability, he'll run the moves, his boot's big and he's no speed bump in defence, but he's nothing to fall back on if plan A isn't working, he wont adjust his game plan, he won't look out for gaps, he won't probe the defence.

On Saturday that was enough. When you play for a top club like Wigan, it will will be enough most weeks, but I'd take a Danny Maguire any day of the week over him.

As someone who doesn't watch NRL, I must say I one of those waiting for the great white hope of Gareth Widdop to materialise. I'm not saying he had a bad game, but my expectation are a lot higher.

I must say, I thought Widdop was very poor for most of the series. He really kills the possibility of creating overlaps by running towards the touchline with the ball instead of squaring up and fixing defenders. Williams was also guilty of this, although to a lesser extent. I was in favour of McNamara's decision to bring Smith in because, while he can't do a lot of the flashy things those other players can do, he plays square and is very effective at the organisational work a playmaker should be able to do. I don't think it's any coincidence that Watkins finally got some good ball in the last test - shame he had a bit of a mare with his hands.

He's not the most popular figure, McNamara, and he doesn't help himself in that respect with the weird public persona that he adopts, but I think it's only fair to recognise that England have improved under his management. Since he's been in charge we've lost some close ones, but I can't remember us ever being out of a game. I think finding a dependable half back partnership will be the thing that decides his legacy (assuming he stays on).

I'd love to see Kevin Brown play alongside Matty Smith for England. I know he plays for a team that finished in the bottom 4, but Widnes are so impotent without him. He makes things happen and defenders don't have a clue how to cope with him. If he had the quality of the players for England around him, he could cause so many problems. He brings out the best in the runners around him.

I think Smith is a very good player and should never have left Saints.
However, I think the best English halfback last season was Luke Gale from Castleford. He has the ability to break the line, has a good kicking game and his support play is first class. Oh I forgot, he doesn't play for Wigan

I don't think anyone is suggesting that if a better option comes along they shouldn't get picked. Like I said though, its Widdop who ought to be more at risk. Smith is the kind of player you can at least structure your team around. Widdop looks like he is, but seems to have lost even basic organisational skills and is absolutely non-existent as an attacking threat.

To be fair to Widdop, he seemed to go into his shell once the Dragons signed Marshall, but a player with his experience ought to be able to take games by the scruff of the neck and he seems less and less likely to do so.

We all seem to agree on Matty Smith's strengths.

I think its important to note that, although what he does well may seem like staple skills for a 7, there are plenty of players who fail to do these basics.

We lost a GF with Smith playing.

Eastmond left, we couldn't hold onto him. Had he stayed (and stayed fiit) he would have been playing on Saturday, and causing the Kiwis trouble. In one GF defeat he scored all our points.

We [ishould[/i have kept Smith instead of Scott Moore. That was the mistake imo

To be honest I don't think Matty Smith has improved all that much since we let him go, bit more experience and composure perhaps but still not creative and dominant to orchestrate a team consistently. Every season the standard of Superleague weakens as the quality of players available suffers, Matty is OK in a structured side like Wigan but Saints wanted created creative open play half backs which we never got for the remaining 6 years courtesy of Eastmond. A fit Walsh is much superior than Matty Smith, internationally we have struggled so long for half backs similar to Saints, George Williams looks very promising and should develop into a much better player than Matty.

Matty Smith is a meat and veg player. Does the basic well enough at a consistent level but has no flair or spark.

I think this idea - that a steady, organising half back is for boring, structured play and an instinctive, pacey half is for creative open play - is a common misconception. Players need space, time and possession in good positions in order to really improvise. A really good organiser at half back provides all of these things. He himself might not be producing crazy youtube moments, but he's creating the conditions for other players to do that. Matty Smith's directness on Saturday meant that we got much better quality ball out to people like Watkins than we had in the previous two tests. Conversely, the improvisational running of Widdop and Williams meant that when the ball got to the edges it was always a blind alley. I agree that Williams will ultimately become a better player than Matty Smith, but I think a player like Williams needs a player like Smith alongside him. It would be great if we had a more talented version of Smith to call upon (look at Cooper Cronk, for example - he is first and foremost an organising half, and the Aussies always have one in their side), but with the exception of McGuire, who now seems to be out of the picture, we don't.

EDIT: By 'we', of course, I mean England, not Saints.

The Grand Final that Matty Smith played in, is this the same one where he'd spent the entire season on loan to Salford and got called back to play in that one game (my memory might be betraying me)? If so, who expects a player to just come back in for a game after spending the season elsewhere and just slip back into the structures etc It's essentially like signing for a new team...
And again, if I remember right, despite losing that game he played well.

I said it at the time and I'll say it now, Eastmond, just like Lomax wasn't at his most effective as a scrum half. He was an explosive runner, who was exciting to watch, but he wasn't the type of player who could guide the team around the pitch and come up with intelligent plays on the last tackle. In my opinion, he was a fullback thrown in to the scrum half role in a desperate attempt to recapture the Sean Long glory days.

Eastmond was playing for us when he was around 20. He had a far more complete set of half backs skills than Sean Long did at that age.
Just because someone is fast, doesn't mean they can't do the organising role, its jut player that have it all are obviously a rarer commodity.
Lomax won YPOTY playing 7. He did have a limitations, but could work well with a thinker/orgnaisor/kicker (like smith) alongside him. When we started picking Hohaia at 6 was when his deficiencies at 7 became too much (a long with a lot of other things not going well), but again, he was very young to be expected to be a complete halfback.

As I've said, I like Smith, I wished we'd have kept him instead of giving that doorhandle Moore another chance, but I don't think Smith was the guy to turn us from bridesmaids to brides

I'm think Kevin Brown struggles against the better teams and not good enough for international rugby

Nobody agrees with anything I say, it's like my marriage this!!!!!!

*goes and sulks in shed*

I agree with you, he would flourish with better quality players either side, or rather they would.

It's not your fault. Your just misunderstood

Just watched a review of the 2015 season and the player that stands out head and shoulders above every other half back is Kevin Brown. Sheer class. Without him, Widnes would be scrapping with Bradford and Leigh in 2016.

Only just seen this thread, and interesting to compare it to the one on the Wigan board! If anything, the sentiment here seems slightly more pro-Smith, I'd say.

He had a poor start to the season for us (and wasn't the only one by any means). He did steadily improve as the season went on, culminating in that good England performance discussed above. I do think that he and George Williams are a good fit together, and I agree that this is the kind of partnership England should be looking for too, if not with the same personnel necessarily. He'll never set the world on fire, but he's a good solid pro who comes across as a decent bloke as well.

I agree with youse guys about Widdop too. I went from being delighted that England have a highly-rated NRL half in the team, to being perturbed by his sideways crabbing and lack of direction. Good goal-kicker, though (and better than Smith). In the apt words of a Wigan board poster (discussing Stefan Ratchford, IIRC), he seems more sizzle than steak!

Also agree that Brown and Gale can consider themselves a tad unlucky not to have been given a shot at an England shirt in the last year, but the real culprit there is the chronic lack of international footy, a situation for which the ARL/NRL must take most of the blame.