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| Quote ="FearTheVee"Agree, very slow to react there - no real urgency shown, he would have been favourite to collect that ball otherwise.'"
i just think he "clocked off" for a second and that was enough. What made me think about it was his tremendous "read" of the danger situation late on in the Good Friday derby. Lomax put the short grubber kick in and Tomkins was onto it and away. Graham read the situation brilliantly and got back into a position to make the tackle.
Had he read the Obst play yesterday as well as did on Friday the try may well have been prevented, but perhaps I'm being a bit over critical (had Graham been subbed then?) |
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| Quote ="Blobbynator"He looks good to me, better than our other young back rowers in Dixon and Ashurst, but has a bit of size to be able to play prop IMO. If he has a free run with injuries, he'll develop into a good player for us.'"
Blobby sums it up perfectly for me.
Although promising he didn't look 'laterally' mobile or to have much stamina when he came in last season.
The knee braces have gone and he looks a lot better this year.
Just hope he doesn't burn out and he is being flogged in the absence of Clough.
Dixon and Ashurst seem to have tailed off this season. I think they are on a wedge for fringe players
hence thay can't go dual reg and are stuck in the U20s.
Another Andy Platt / Clough type in the making. |
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Graham was also partly responsible for the try that came from the Obst chip (or is that the same try you are talking about)
Graham didn't really read the danger and started his chase a fraction too late.
For those of you who missed it the tries are shown again on Sky Sports 4 at 6 p.m.'"
Yes he was partly to blame from that little chip over by obst. He didn't see the danger then was to slow to react.
Thought jammer was pure world class when he came on for his final stint. |
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| Quote ="St pete"Thought jammer was pure world class when he came on for his final stint.'"
Jammer is pure world class. |
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Graham was also partly responsible for the try that came from the Obst chip (or is that the same try you are talking about)
Graham didn't really read the danger and started his chase a fraction too late.
For those of you who missed it the tries are shown again on Sky Sports 4 at 6 p.m.'"
I was more disappointed with (the otherwise excellent) Wilkin for the chip through.
He could have chased the kick much harder and, if he'd got there before Obst, he'd certainly have been in a good position to make the tackle.
Mind you, lets not detract from a brilliant bit of play from Obst - you can over analyse these things. |
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Neither Dixon nor Ashurt will develop without consecutive lengthy spells of game time.
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I thought it was his best game he has had for us.
His defence was very good.
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He's very promising but I'm not sure I'd want him at prop in anything other than an emergency until he can develop a bit more physically. He just seems to lose the collision a bit too often ATM but he's got plenty of time on his side, his aggression in both attack and defence puts him in front if Dixon and/or Ashurst who both need to kick on if they are to hang around IMO.
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I definitely see him having the potential to be the next cloughy, starting out as a hard working backrower, but progressing to prop as he fills out
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| It's Magennis  |
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| Quote ="mistermoo"It's Magennis
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you say McGennis, we say Magennis, lets call the whole thing off! |
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Graham was also partly responsible for the try that came from the Obst chip (or is that the same try you are talking about)
Graham didn't really read the danger and started his chase a fraction too late.
For those of you who missed it the tries are shown again on Sky Sports 4 at 6 p.m.'"
Translation: I'm so desperate to try and not recognise Graham as being truly world class that I'm trying to pinpoint every single move he makes because I will never believe he's the best British prop since Kevin Ward and better than anything Wigoon have produced since year dot. And in fact I'll probably quote this back and mention some guy from the 50s who ran through a couple of beer bellied part-timers in the 50s as being the best I've ever seen. |
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TKO.
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| Quote ="McClennan"Translation: I'm so desperate to try and not recognise Graham as being truly world class that I'm trying to pinpoint every single move he makes because I will never believe he's the best British prop since Kevin Ward and better than anything Wigoon have produced since year dot. And in fact I'll probably quote this back and mention some guy from the 50s who ran through a couple of beer bellied part-timers in the 50s as being the best I've ever seen.'"
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| Quote ="McClennan"Translation: I'm so desperate to try and not recognise Graham as being truly world class that I'm trying to pinpoint every single move he makes because I will never believe he's the best British prop since Kevin Ward and better than anything Wigoon have produced since year dot. And in fact I'll probably quote this back and mention some guy from the 50s who ran through a couple of beer bellied part-timers in the 50s as being the best I've ever seen.'"
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Graham's the best prop in SL, and one of the very best in the World, and a player I'd have in a Wigan shirt in a flash.
But just to play devil's advocate. I would say that vintage Stuart Fielden when at Bradford was just a slightly better prop IMO.
www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011
Meters per carrie.
Graham: 6.7
Fielden: 7.9
Credit to Graham for his tenacious work in defense. But other than that he's well beaten in all other area's. Particularly offload's, clean breaks and tackles bust. James does make less errors, but anyone who's watched Fielden from the start of his career will know Stuart's always been a little guilty of butter fingers at times. |
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Graham's the best prop in SL, and one of the very best in the World, and a player I'd have in a Wigan shirt in a flash.
But just to play devil's advocate. I would say that vintage Stuart Fielden when at Bradford was just a slightly better prop IMO.
www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011
Meters per carrie.
Graham: 6.7
Fielden: 7.9
Credit to Graham for his tenacious work in defense. But other than that he's well beaten in all other area's. Particularly offload's, clean breaks and tackles bust. James does make less errors, but anyone who's watched Fielden from the start of his career will know Stuart's always been a little guilty of butter fingers at times. | |
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| Quote ="McClennan"Translation: I'm so desperate to try and not recognise Graham as being truly world class that I'm trying to pinpoint every single move he makes because I will never believe he's the best British prop since Kevin Ward and better than anything Wigoon have produced since year dot. And in fact I'll probably quote this back and mention some guy from the 50s who ran through a couple of beer bellied part-timers in the 50s as being the best I've ever seen.'"
Comprehensive smashing.
That is how to respond to trolling, people. |
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| Quote ="LovesToSpooge"Graham's the best prop in SL, and one of the very best in the World, and a player I'd have in a Wigan shirt in a flash.
But just to play devil's advocate. I would say that vintage Stuart Fielden when at Bradford was just a slightly better prop IMO.
'"
Could be true. But let's remember that he was playing in a pack which had two 20 stone beasts and Brian Mcdermott up front, with little Jamie Peacock having to settle for a place in the back row. |
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| Quote ="McClennan"Translation: I'm so desperate to try and not recognise Graham as being truly world class that I'm trying to pinpoint every single move he makes because I will never believe he's the best British prop since Kevin Ward and better than anything Wigoon have produced since year dot. And in fact I'll probably quote this back and mention some guy from the 50s who ran through a couple of beer bellied part-timers in the 50s as being the best I've ever seen.'"
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Quote ="LovesToSpooge"Graham's the best prop in SL, and one of the very best in the World, and a player I'd have in a Wigan shirt in a flash.
But just to play devil's advocate. I would say that vintage Stuart Fielden when at Bradford was just a slightly better prop IMO.
www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011
Meters per carrie.
Graham: 6.7
Fielden: 7.9
Credit to Graham for his tenacious work in defense. But other than that he's well beaten in all other area's. Particularly offload's, clean breaks and tackles bust. James does make less errors, but anyone who's watched Fielden from the start of his career will know Stuart's always been a little guilty of butter fingers at times.'"
At his peak Fielden was very good but 600m extra in two games less is a pretty big difference. That's an average of 30m [iper game[/i and Also why did you not pick Graham's 2009 season which would give you a difference of 67m [iper game[/i?
Those are big figures particularly when you consider the quality of defence on offer in those two respective seasons i.e. the average points differentials for the bottom six were -269 (SL XV), -185 (SL XIV) and -291 (SL X) and SL X was with a twelve team league as well! With the bottom four alone it was -324, -259 and -420. I don't think you can seriously compare the output of the two of them. Fielden was good at his peak but not in the same league as Graham. Once defences caught up with Fielden he melted. Perhaps the burning sun of Australia will melt Graham but he'll make a good fist of it I'm sure.
Edit: The number of clean breaks over those three competitions support my view that defences were not as great then too. The average number of clean breaks per team during those seasons were 124 (XV), 142 (XIV) and 181 (X) which equates to roughly an extra line break per team per game against XIV and two against XV. Given Super League XV's average number of total line breaks per game was 9.2 (X was 13 per game) that's a significant difference in a game and over the course of a season. |
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Quote ="LovesToSpooge"Graham's the best prop in SL, and one of the very best in the World, and a player I'd have in a Wigan shirt in a flash.
But just to play devil's advocate. I would say that vintage Stuart Fielden when at Bradford was just a slightly better prop IMO.
www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011
Meters per carrie.
Graham: 6.7
Fielden: 7.9
Credit to Graham for his tenacious work in defense. But other than that he's well beaten in all other area's. Particularly offload's, clean breaks and tackles bust. James does make less errors, but anyone who's watched Fielden from the start of his career will know Stuart's always been a little guilty of butter fingers at times.'"
At his peak Fielden was very good but 600m extra in two games less is a pretty big difference. That's an average of 30m [iper game[/i and Also why did you not pick Graham's 2009 season which would give you a difference of 67m [iper game[/i?
Those are big figures particularly when you consider the quality of defence on offer in those two respective seasons i.e. the average points differentials for the bottom six were -269 (SL XV), -185 (SL XIV) and -291 (SL X) and SL X was with a twelve team league as well! With the bottom four alone it was -324, -259 and -420. I don't think you can seriously compare the output of the two of them. Fielden was good at his peak but not in the same league as Graham. Once defences caught up with Fielden he melted. Perhaps the burning sun of Australia will melt Graham but he'll make a good fist of it I'm sure.
Edit: The number of clean breaks over those three competitions support my view that defences were not as great then too. The average number of clean breaks per team during those seasons were 124 (XV), 142 (XIV) and 181 (X) which equates to roughly an extra line break per team per game against XIV and two against XV. Given Super League XV's average number of total line breaks per game was 9.2 (X was 13 per game) that's a significant difference in a game and over the course of a season. | |
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| Quote ="McClennan"At his peak Fielden was very good but 600m extra in two games less is a pretty big difference. That's an average of 30m [iper game[/i and Also why did you not pick Graham's 2009 season which would give you a difference of 67m [iper game[/i?
Those are big figures particularly when you consider the quality of defence on offer in those two respective seasons i.e. the average points differentials for the bottom six were -269 (SL XV), -185 (SL XIV) and -291 (SL X) and SL X was with a twelve team league as well! With the bottom four alone it was -324, -259 and -420. I don't think you can seriously compare the output of the two of them. Fielden was good at his peak but not in the same league as Graham. Once defences caught up with Fielden he melted. Perhaps the burning sun of Australia will melt Graham but he'll make a good fist of it I'm sure.
Edit: The number of clean breaks over those three competitions support my view that defences were not as great then too. The average number of clean breaks per team during those seasons were 124 (XV), 142 (XIV) and 181 (X) which equates to roughly an extra line break per team per game against XIV and two against XV. Given Super League XV's average number of total line breaks per game was 9.2 (X was 13 per game) that's a significant difference in a game and over the course of a season.'"
Excellent post. All though your use of roman numerals and the fact I don't my roman numerals did throw me. 
All though I disagree Fielden's formed dipped because of better defenses. A number of well documented factors contributed to Stuart's downfall. The greatest one being burnout, after playing for the full eighty, match after match, season after season. For me Fielden provided the best performance from a prop I've ever witnessed when Bradford faced West Tigers in the WCC. So while I fully acknowledge Graham is a superb prop and one of the very best in the world. Having seen them both play, I'm still of the opinion that Fielden in his pomp was the best. But only by the tiniest of margins as I've already previously said. |
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Quote ="LovesToSpooge"Graham's the best prop in SL, and one of the very best in the World, and a player I'd have in a Wigan shirt in a flash.
But just to play devil's advocate. I would say that vintage Stuart Fielden when at Bradford was just a slightly better prop IMO.
www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011
Meters per =#FF0000carrie.
Graham: 6.7
Fielden: 7.9
Credit to Graham for his tenacious work in defense. But other than that he's well beaten in all other area's. Particularly offload's, clean breaks and tackles bust. James does make less errors, but anyone who's watched Fielden from the start of his career will know Stuart's always been a little guilty of butter fingers at times.'"
CARRY, CARRY, CARRY, CARRY, CARRY.
Sorry, I've seen you spell it that way a couple of times and needed to get it off my chest. |
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Quote ="LovesToSpooge"Graham's the best prop in SL, and one of the very best in the World, and a player I'd have in a Wigan shirt in a flash.
But just to play devil's advocate. I would say that vintage Stuart Fielden when at Bradford was just a slightly better prop IMO.
www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011
Meters per =#FF0000carrie.
Graham: 6.7
Fielden: 7.9
Credit to Graham for his tenacious work in defense. But other than that he's well beaten in all other area's. Particularly offload's, clean breaks and tackles bust. James does make less errors, but anyone who's watched Fielden from the start of his career will know Stuart's always been a little guilty of butter fingers at times.'"
CARRY, CARRY, CARRY, CARRY, CARRY.
Sorry, I've seen you spell it that way a couple of times and needed to get it off my chest. | |
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| Quote ="BackrowSaint"CARRY, CARRY, CARRY, CARRY, CARRY.
Sorry, I've seen you spell it that way a couple of times and needed to get it off my chest.
'"
Duly noted.  |
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| Quote ="LovesToSpooge"Duly noted.
'" Graham's yards per carry's never been the highest, but its his unbeleivable workrate which then gains him back the ground (so to speak).
The big red cow just keeps on coming! |
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