Stop being so pedantic. Do I need to put 'overall' or 'generally' before everything? Wigan are SL champs so clearly aren't all rubbish. But in terms of stand out individuals they are not that impressive. If you threw Dowes into their pack for example he would fit in fine. All the names mentioned are replaceable and their departures won't be a major hurdle for Wigan in the way Graham leaving Saints is for us.

If you look on the SL stats site for most yards, the only forward that shows up is Lima, and he's pretty far down - yet WIgan are top of the pile. The Wigan forwards play as a collective like no other side.

Then probably best not to say they have "no quality at all" in their forward squad bar 2 players and expect not to be called up on it - because it's gibberish.

It's not being pedantic - it's commenting on yet another of your nonsensical exaggerations.

I stand by what I put. Those players as individuals are not outstanding. Their success comes from the way they play rather than who they are. It's why they are so resilient and can change players about so easily.

Saddened (even though I think he was fishing) is probably right, in that Wigan don't have a stand out prop who tops the metre charts. Mossop is becoming that player though and will be there soon. Wigan work as a group in the forwards, no heroes but solid hard work.

Saints are blessed with an excellent set of forwards IMO. They just need to be coached well and conditioned it seems! I just don't think Simmons knows how to get the best out of them. You're pack in terms of names and reputation is up there with any in SL.

The Chair Maker mentioned Paul Johnson and his situation at Wakey. He'd be a better option that Dowes for me. It's not often (if at all), that Saints let players go and we regret it, but I agree with the comments re: Johnson and Emmitt. Both should have been kept on.

True, perhaps Johnson would relish a 2nd chance at Saints, rather than be aggreived he was released.
I don't think anyone could criticise the decision to let him go, he had done virtually nothing to suggest he was worth a 1st team squad place. Emmitt had shown more promise, bt perhaps was offered more by cas?

A fair bit more apparently.

All unsubstantiated comment, though.

True,but not wanting to sound arrogant what other reason would he leave Saints to go to Cas.

Longer contract? Guaranteed first team rugby (which is a quicker route to a material pay rise if you're confident in your ability)?

He almost doubled his wages moving to Cas.

To be fair to him though I think he played twice in the first team and one of those occasions was for 10 minutes against Wigan at the DW when we were slowly losing the game! (Thanks to Foster we held on to a win)

Oh yeah, I don't mean because he was poor, but he couldn't get the chances due to other front row players (although I think he was tauted as back row at first).
Looking back, releasing Fozzard, Hargreaves, Emmit and Johnson all at the same time may have been careless, although this has merely added to the frustration of injuries to senior players, as well as Forster and then the further derailment of the great white hope, Gaz Frodsham. To be honest, I think we should give Frodsham one last roll of his dice before his contract is up.

I've just noted that Ben Davies is OOC at Wigan. The lads at Widnes we're very comlimentary about the time he spent there.

If that was the case he'd still be at Saints Id have thought.

Your correct he was tearing it up in the Championship last year. Great footwork for a prop as well as being pacy, with a great work ethic and highly aggressive. All the things you want to see any prop, let alone a youngster.

Unfortunately he broke his hand at the beginning of this season, and after a reasonable absence he's suffered to replicate last years form. He looks to have put a bit of chub on as well which won't be helping his cause.

A few Wigan's fans would be happy to see him leave. However I'd like to see him kept at Wigan. I think he's shown some good signs when ever I've seen him play. I think it's just a case as it is with all youngsters but particularly young props that he needs to improve his consistency. Plus Wigan need to give him time to develop.

We are defo 100% a specialist prop short next year. We will go with perry and lms as starting props with either TP or laffranchi as the prop/loose role. TP, laffranchi, perry, lms and clough are good players but IMO we need a good, big hard prop.

Clough and laffranchi are backrows by trade and TP ain't really your tough no nonsense prop that will battle his way down the middle.

It's a shame we ain't got a quota spot as west tigers prop Bruce Gibbs would be a revelation in super league.

If you only needed 17 players for a season, I'd be very happy with these. The problem is that as soon as one of those get injured, we all of a sudden look extremely short of weight.
One prop - doesn't have to be a world beater, just solid and heavy - would be a real tonic at the moment. Paul Johnson would be a good target, assuming he didn't take the knock when he left - surely he could be tempted back to play amongst his old team mates, shiny new stadium, first team oppotunities? That's taking for granted that Wakey are shafted as far as SL goes.

PJ was let go for a reason, surely the powers that be have seen something in some of the U20/18. I could imagine that some of those will be getting the opportunity next season. Id rather see us using these kids then bring back a player we released a season before because he was deemed not good enough.

He wouldn't be in the fist choice Saints XVII, he most certainly is at Cas. Being a top 2 prop at a weaker team is worth more to the wallet than being 6th choice at a big club.

It's easy to blame the club for not keeping Emmitt, but in all honesty he's made the right move - more rugby and most probably a fair bit more cash. There was little that Saints could realistically offer him that would make staying at Saints a better career move than leaving for Cas.

Your probably right, I'm just getting giddy. Johnson's obviously worked hard, but his stats don't show anything out of the ordinary in terms of go forward, unlike Emmit.

Wigan have signed Ben Cross until the end of the season. www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-w ... _1_3568321

Wigan have signed Ben Cross until the end of the season. www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-w ... _1_3568321

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Wigan have signed Ben Cross until the end of the season. www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-w ... _1_3568321'" Sheesh, not a bad move. Not sure that you need him, or is feilden out for long? If Perry is out for the season, it would have been good for us. I know he's had his knockers, but certainly in our game at headingly he looked pretty good.

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Wigan have signed Ben Cross until the end of the season. www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-w ... _1_3568321'" Sheesh, not a bad move. Not sure that you need him, or is feilden out for long? If Perry is out for the season, it would have been good for us. I know he's had his knockers, but certainly in our game at headingly he looked pretty good.

We've run at least two props light all season (Fielden and O'Carroll)

Prescotts done a hamstring and Coleys playing on knees that are worse than mine. The games we have struggled this season have been when we have had only three available props, so I guess it's a good short term signing.

Fileden I believe is still four to six weeks away from playing, however hopefully O'Carroll will get a game in the U20's this Saturday, but will he survive it?

What did Feilden do?
For all the talk over the years that he's "burnt out", i seem to remember him having a pretty good injury record.