I do my think people understand that the game has moved on from the 80s. The days of throwing tea around the changing rooms and coaches getting worked into a crazy frenzy before games are gone.

It's down to the player to get himself up for it. I can understand playing London at home is hard to motivate yourself but in games like Good Friday, Easter Monday (derby games), Leeds away in the cup is down to players to self motivate, if they can't get motivated for those types game then

A) they shouldn't be playing the game.

B) they have no pride or passion for the club.

I don't think anyone wants him to do that.

He can't make plsyers be aggressive. It's in the player to be aggressive. We don't have aggressive players. I'd love to play against this saints team as I know I could run around the park with no danger of being hit with a big shot or hit off the ball.

Honestly, we are a joy to play against!

To some extent, I think you're right. The days of people like Murphy tearing strips off players on a weekly basis are gone, and for good reason; if your coach screams and shouts every week then soon it just becomes white noise.

However, I think you're letting Brown off the hook way too easily. A coach has to establish a culture at a club that leads to players wanting to fight for each other. That's not just about the pre-match team talk, but about the standards that are set from day to day. You only had to see Wigan's players being greeted off the pitch by Wane on Saturday to see that there is a proud and thriving culture at that club with a strong coach at its head. Unfortunately I just don't think we have the same thing going at Saints.

Exactly.

Look at Powell at Cas. He's taken them from relegation to top 4 by changing the culture at that club. Players desperate to play for each other running through brick walls to do so. Under Millward they were awful.

All players have it in them. It's about creating the conditions for the players to excel and to play as a cohesive unit.

You could say that Brown had is one win from top of league as well.

I think Brown has to shoulder some of the blame but if players can't motivate themselves for a saints v Wigan derby at a magic weekend with all of rugby league watching then these players have problems.

We played Warrington today, not Wigan.

Yep. One Cas player - was it Shenton? I think it was - when interviewed said also that Powell had raised the standard there too. They paid great attention to detail on all aspects of their game.

I think it's pretty obvious I made a mistake and pretty easy to guess I mean Warrington. Unless you think I'm talking about the hammering a we've had off Wigan at magic in recent years.

We be playing Wakefield next year so it's a even game for sky to show.

Yeah, but we didn't win. And soon we won't be in second.

get real the whole team played rubbish with no passion stop picking on lms and turner all the time . If your going to lay blame there were 17 players in total playing not two who you keep digging at

LMS plays rubbish all the time though, except against teams at the bottom of the league and that's why he gets 'picked on'. Turner has fallen to pieces since the start of the season, keeps talking about playing better but doesn't play better.

Comments im reading are unable to motivate the players, tinkering.

I wont refer you to my post when Brown joined Saints and I said all this, but was told it was cos he was coaching a poor team at Huddersfield.

Nathan Brown has a poor reputation imo. He lost the dressing room in Australia and he lost the dressing room at Huddersdfield.

His win loss ratio isn't all that good and think a few Saints fans are beginning to realise what iv'e always said, he aint as good as a few make out he is.

How much more time would you guys like to see him given and if he does go who would you like to come in to replace him?

You talk rubbish all the time on here . You clearly don't like certain players at saints. What did Johnny L , swift, Makinson , Sia do Sunday . They did nothing . We had a terrible game. It's over now remember we beat Wire earlier in the year . Saints need to forget about this and move forwards and prepare for Friday

Swift didn't play so he probably didn't do very much.

Feel sorry for Swift. Didn't play and now he's getting blamed for a loss

Sorry did not mean to put swift on there

Move forwards how??? Pick the same players to do the same again?

It's a combination of things, for me.

1 - A badly balanced squad. Whilst NB has attempted to improve the deficiencies in the squad, we still only have one true centre, we still only have one half back and we still have 35 lightweight second rowers at the club.

2 - Bad player retention. Whoever thought it was good business to give Wilkin and LMS longer deals needs their heads checking. Shocking decisions, lumbering us with players we should be getting rid of, and making them hard to ship on. I would add Turner to that list too, but I think he is just low on confidence at the moment, and I think with the right coaching, he will bounce back.

3 - The coaching set up. From top to bottom, this appears stale and ineffective (from the outside, at least). The player's appear match fit, that much is true, but our run of injuries is a joke. I know it is a contact sport, but we are decimated season after season. The club appears to have regressed from the opening week of the season, to the point where we are now in active free fall. Those 3 matches where we knocked in the first set and conceded show a lack of preparation/motivation from the management team.

Last season NB was given the rub of the green as he was inheriting a poor side, and whilst we has tried to smooth over the cracks, and appeared to have a strong side on paper at the beginning of this season, it feels like we are about as far away from competing for the GF as we have ever been, and maybe it is time to start thinking about a clean start, from top to bottom. I know it won't be easy, but something has to give.

I think the forwards are badly balanced, in that we have too much impact, not enough grunt. We have no one to replace Amors leader/ mongrel/ fight, or even to replace laffranchis tackling and work rate.

This is the result of a couple of more decisions by multiple coaches though, and brown (in his credit) has had one of the most successful stabs at addressing this. How recruitment goes for this season, could be make or break for saints for a good long while. I only hope we have some aces up our sleeve.



Jon Wilkin last re-signed in 2011 - was an England second rower at the time, and was very successful. His retention at the time couldn't be called into question. The game has moved very quickly to make his jack of all style obsolete and were suffering for it. Lms had a fantastic end to last year, and certainly no one on here spoke out when it was announced that I recall - hindsight is a wonderful thing? There's certainly nothing to suggest he shouldn't be peaking as a forward in the next few years. I don't disagree with wellens playing on either. As said with our recruitment, brown has had a better stab at resolving these issues than a good few of his predecessors - players are being moved on both on and off contract, there's only so much that can be done in any one off season. Were potentially letting clough, Flanaghan, soliola and hohaia go for 2015 who are all under contract.


We hire twice the number of staff as Wigan, and pay 500k less on our overall wage bill (3.5m vs 4m). That's very telling for me. While were hiring bar staff and shop workers, Wigan are getting in physio specialists and psychologists. If the rumour about brown being the highest paid rumour is true (and it seems believable enough) - someone needs to tell eamonn to spend less on the head and spread it across physios and nutritionists and physiologists and build a TEAM to squeeze as much speed and skill and strength out of every single player at the club, week in, week out. Then the head coach only needs to worry about tactics and getting the players frothing.



We have been spoilt in many respects. In the last 20 years our WORST finish is 5th which, whilst it felt like the end of the world last year 90% would be incredibly happy with. I feel like we've addressed the problems with our business model, we've addressed the problems with the playing squad, now we just need to address the team that gets them onto the pitch every week...

A good reply there, and I didn't know about the coaching set up. As you say, that is very telling indeed.

Or the one we dished out Good Friday!

Wrong question. You should be asking who's decision was it to appoint him in the first place and on what basis was that decision made. It was a total mystery to me at the time and nothing has changed. Hell, he was even sacked at Huddersfield after Saints appointed him but rather than see out his gardening leave at Langtree Park he decamped Down Under. That led to speculation as to whether he would even return to take the helm.

And he questions the players commitment to the cause?

MS you make some interesting points.
However just to correct you on the salaries.
From the 2012 accounts (last ones that I have seen filed)

Saints employed 145 people and the total salaries were £3.749M
Wigan employed 76 people and the total salaries were £4.022M

So the wage difference is around £270K not £500K as you stated.

Presumably the difference would be accounted for by Stadium employees which Wigan do not need to provide.
Certainly highlights better pay at Wigan!