I dont think we could.
Its a shame but he's a shadow of the immense defender he once was

I disagree. In the modern game, an offensive full back who can commit or preferably beat a defender is essential. He can no longer do either.

And I think this is where the fundamental difference of opinion in saints fans come from. You can put anyone in the third receiver role (Sam tomkins was originally a halfback who was moved just to fill that role) in the attacking line keeping wello away from the creative roles (imo his ability to read the game means he'd still be able to run supporting lines it's just whether he'd be caught before getting it to the next supporting player) so re switching the 1 and 6 roles in attack again.

I just found out he's the 10th oldest man in super league now ... I remember his debut and it's making me feel old!

Haha yeah I remember too! Very depressing.

I think with our current problems at 6, and attacking no.1 is essential. If Lomax got injured and we went for Wellens with Hohaia at 6, we would have very little running threat.

We'd definitely have to go for the third man attack option. If I were coach, I'd have Walsh and Wilkin (he has better distribution than hohaia) as 1st and 2nd receiver Hohaia as the third man attacking the line, with jones outside him and wello inside him if/ when he inevitably gets smashed and can get the offload away. It would (probably) work for a couple of games at least but organisation is the absolute key to those plays coming off - which is why we'd need both roby and Walsh on to compensate for it (and it would weaken our right hand side attack as I imagine Wilkin will play as the pivot on that side).

All conjecture of course - just imo we'd still be competitive with 2 out of the three (lomax Walsh roby) lose 2 of them and we probably couldn't cope with wellens in the team for the big games.

I see what you're saying but I just think he has become a passenger now and slows things down to the point where he has a negative effect.

Anyway, as you say it's all conjecture and either one of us or neither will be proved right in the next 10 months.

I'd be intrigued to see the solution where neither of us were right



Well as a supporter all you can do is get behind whoever a on the pitch! I still think he's a club legend no matter what goes down this season (and we have been spoilt with those over the last couple of years!)

Reality is, until we sign a consistent back up for 6 and 9 I'd still rather he was around (I don't know if any of the kids in those positions are ready - I'd guess not given none of them were named in the squad)- let's be honest can he be any worse than Howarth???

Charnock has a squad number and he is a stand off.

And if we don't play Wellens at all then neither of us would be right about us winning a trophy or not with him in the side



But you're right, he is a legend and I've got huge respect for him. I just worry that his last couple of years will stay in people's minds as much as his glory years. Whereas Long, Cunningham and Scully all finished with Saints before performances dropped too much, Wellens hasn't done that. I genuinely believe that with every passing year that he carries on going, he is tarnishing his own legacy.

This is where the fallacy comes in imo - longs play did drop off, dramatically too - but we had let him go to hull so we never had that expectation. Sculthorpe retired early due to injurys so never really had a "twilight" of his career. Cunningham is the exception, but that's why he's the greatest club man to ever grace a rugby pitch

they also didn't go through the dramatic transformation of their own roles whilst playing like wello has.

Any way that's another argument for another day, competition for places is better than no competition for places :p

You could argue that they did not go through the dramatic transformation of the roles as they lead the way in terms of their roles.

Whilst Wellens was an excellent Fullback I don't think he redefined the role, he was the best at it.

But Cunningham changed the hooking role.
Long was way ahead of his contempory's for years the next best 7 was Paul Deacon, whose greatest strength was his place kicking.
Sculthorpe again was another level. So good a loose forward that he could play half back from loose forward.

The reason why I would use Wellens as a stand in FB if Lomax was injured is because it is a straight swap and does not require us to change other elements of the team.

If we are trying to build up partnerships then if Lomax got a knock 50% of the way through the season keeping him out for 4-6 games, then dropping Wellens in leaves the rest of the team unmoved.

I'd rather that be his role than putting him on the bench whilst moving x and y about so Makinson can cover FB.

Let's look at this without sympathy and nostalgia. Wellens' time has come and he's no longer anywhere near the player he was. He's had 17 years at the top level which is a damn sight more than many players get, if he was playing at the standard he is now in that first year he'd have been at Rochdale or the like within 2 years.

The only time he should be in that team is if a raging virus takes out 17 players one weekend.

Having said that, if he is providing valuable experience and learning to the younger players I have no real issue with him being in the squad.

The way I see it. You need to play in different positions to be a utility player. Based on all the years I've been watching wello, he can only play fullback.

He's not a utility player. IMO he's just a squad player that should only play if we have dire injury problems.

Sadly it seems Brown thinks otherwise

Or does he?

There is probably something of a gap, between what he says publicly, what he says privately and what he actually thinks.

If I wanted a happy squad going into the season I would want everyone of my playing squad to think they were in with a shout.

No point putting peoples confidence down before a ball has even been kicked!

It's possible!!

He's going to be on the bench IMO.

One thing that did occur to be when watching this video www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/3707 and from being face to face with Wello is that he is surprisingly bigger, in terms of muscle mass, than you realise. If you look at other FB’s in SL and the NRL they are very slight and light weight these days eg Tomkins, Slater etc. Now I know Wello is no spring chicken and has never really had pace but if he is going to be back up for 1 or 6/7 or anywhere in the backs shouldn’t the conditioning staff be downsizing him to gain speed from shedding the muscle mass?

One thing that did occur to be when watching this video www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/3707 and from being face to face with Wello is that he is surprisingly bigger, in terms of muscle mass, than you realise. If you look at other FB’s in SL and the NRL they are very slight and light weight these days eg Tomkins, Slater etc. Now I know Wello is no spring chicken and has never really had pace but if he is going to be back up for 1 or 6/7 or anywhere in the backs shouldn’t the conditioning staff be downsizing him to gain speed from shedding the muscle mass?

Quote ="theblondebomber"One thing that did occur to be when watching this video www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/3707 and from being face to face with Wello is that he is surprisingly bigger, in terms of muscle mass, than you realise. If you look at other FB’s in SL and the NRL they are very slight and light weight these days eg Tomkins, Slater etc. Now I know Wello is no spring chicken and has never really had pace but if he is going to be back up for 1 or 6/7 or anywhere in the backs shouldn’t the conditioning staff be downsizing him to gain speed from shedding the muscle mass?'" Wello gaining speed? That's a goodun! Sprinters are traditionally bigger muscle mass. Perhaps he doesn't need to be slimmer now as he won't be doing the full 80 mins so can be a lot stronger at the expense of some fitness

Quote ="theblondebomber"One thing that did occur to be when watching this video www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/3707 and from being face to face with Wello is that he is surprisingly bigger, in terms of muscle mass, than you realise. If you look at other FB’s in SL and the NRL they are very slight and light weight these days eg Tomkins, Slater etc. Now I know Wello is no spring chicken and has never really had pace but if he is going to be back up for 1 or 6/7 or anywhere in the backs shouldn’t the conditioning staff be downsizing him to gain speed from shedding the muscle mass?'" Wello gaining speed? That's a goodun! Sprinters are traditionally bigger muscle mass. Perhaps he doesn't need to be slimmer now as he won't be doing the full 80 mins so can be a lot stronger at the expense of some fitness

Quote ="theblondebomber"One thing that did occur to be when watching this video www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/3707 and from being face to face with Wello is that he is surprisingly bigger, in terms of muscle mass, than you realise. If you look at other FB’s in SL and the NRL they are very slight and light weight these days eg Tomkins, Slater etc. Now I know Wello is no spring chicken and has never really had pace but if he is going to be back up for 1 or 6/7 or anywhere in the backs shouldn’t the conditioning staff be downsizing him to gain speed from shedding the muscle mass?'" They should put more of this stuff in the media. I'm not sure if people realise exactly what all round athletes our lads are.

Quote ="theblondebomber"One thing that did occur to be when watching this video www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/3707 and from being face to face with Wello is that he is surprisingly bigger, in terms of muscle mass, than you realise. If you look at other FB’s in SL and the NRL they are very slight and light weight these days eg Tomkins, Slater etc. Now I know Wello is no spring chicken and has never really had pace but if he is going to be back up for 1 or 6/7 or anywhere in the backs shouldn’t the conditioning staff be downsizing him to gain speed from shedding the muscle mass?'" They should put more of this stuff in the media. I'm not sure if people realise exactly what all round athletes our lads are.

Quote ="theblondebomber"One thing that did occur to be when watching this video www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/3707 and from being face to face with Wello is that he is surprisingly bigger, in terms of muscle mass, than you realise. If you look at other FB’s in SL and the NRL they are very slight and light weight these days eg Tomkins, Slater etc. Now I know Wello is no spring chicken and has never really had pace but if he is going to be back up for 1 or 6/7 or anywhere in the backs shouldn’t the conditioning staff be downsizing him to gain speed from shedding the muscle mass?'" He's been trying to gain speed for the past 15 years with no joy, he certainly won't gain any at 33 years old.

Quote ="theblondebomber"One thing that did occur to be when watching this video www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/3707 and from being face to face with Wello is that he is surprisingly bigger, in terms of muscle mass, than you realise. If you look at other FB’s in SL and the NRL they are very slight and light weight these days eg Tomkins, Slater etc. Now I know Wello is no spring chicken and has never really had pace but if he is going to be back up for 1 or 6/7 or anywhere in the backs shouldn’t the conditioning staff be downsizing him to gain speed from shedding the muscle mass?'" He's been trying to gain speed for the past 15 years with no joy, he certainly won't gain any at 33 years old.

Wello is a fullback.

He's never been a utility.

I can remember his initial outings as a half all those years ago, I genuinely wondered if he had a future for us.

Instead he made the fullback position his own - defensively a rock, offensively a genuine try machine at times.

200+ tries for saints.

His decline reminds me of Joynts latter years.

Joynt finally found a way to adapt and give us a swansong and we were a far better team then.

I'm not sure wello can - not just physically, but positionally the modern game doesn't suit him.

His decline is exaggerated all the more because

The fullback role has changed so dramatically during his decline.

He's spent his entire career with us so we have seen the talent rise and fall.

The clubs recruitment across the team has been shocking for 5 years, and the much vaunted youth seems to be blocked by his continued participation.

And we've not tasted success in years so he's pretty much the last link to all those glory days.

Fullback is still where he is most effective.

So he should back up there or not at all.

I'll start off by saying that for me, he shouldn't be in the 17 for the Warrington game. Not influential enough to start, and with Masoe/Walmsley on the bench that final bench spot is crucial. We'll have to wait and see how that develops, but it's pointless criticising his inclusion before the first squad is named. As I've said before, he has taken a few sacrifices behind the scenes this season and I can see why the club have made the decision they have.

The way I see it is that we have a player at the club who knows exactly what it takes to win trophies with the club. He understands what is required. Anyone who speaks/knows him will tell you that if he wasn't in the first team he would be in the West Stand with us for the Wire game. He knows what the expectations are and what it means and takes to represent the club. With the emergence of younger players this season that could be influential in ways we won't necessarily appreciate. They will learn a great deal purely by watching the way he trains and conducts himself. He'll want to be in the 17, of course he will, and if he is picked in the 17 on form that I don't see how people can have an issue with that. If that makes me one of the 'sentimental group' then so be it, but it's my opinion.

What I'm saying is that we will have to see how it develops with him before jumping to conclusions. He was our top try scorer in 2012 wasn't he, playing at full-back? I could have sworn he won the MOM thread against Leeds (I think) playing at full-back last year? He scored a double in Perpignon when he came on. We could have a worse second choice, although we do have the option of playing Lance at full-back and Wheeler at stand-off if needed. Likewise, I understand the argument regarding the lack of pace/running threat in the halves without Lomax at full-back. I don't think he's as poor as people believe, but I don't think he is worth of a place in the 17 if everyone is fit. Maybe I'm slightly biased, and I'll admit that I've always had a soft spot for players who are prepared to go out and run their blood to water for the club, but we'll just have to see how it develops.

Rumours up here he could be coming to haven on a month to month loan

That won't happen, He's still the captain

Just about spot on, good post

I disagree. Sprinters are now adapting the Usain Bolt physic. I'd say around 70% mesomorph 30% ectomorph. Afterall muscle mass is heavy and its finding that balance not to have to much muscle that it actually works against you by slowing you down. Amongst other sports, sprinting has changed alot in terms of training and physic over that last 15 years. If what you say is true then who is faster at their peak? Ryan Hall / Josh Charnley or Darren Albert?

Darren Albert all day long and very slight in physic