Fans will always move before anyone else.

Fans will sign players up to 4 year contracts off the back of 4 games, they will sack players off the back of one game and will hale coaches and deride them withiin the space of a sentence.

Fans have no need to account for anything other than their own emotions, but I doubt we will sack a coach mid-season based on reults alone, unless those results start to infere an irreversable set of fortunes.

I know saddened has asked how bad does it have to get as we have not won in 4 games. That's the lack of perspective a fan has. 4 games without a win = end of the world. For those running a club, you have to allow for periods without a win. It's not about the run of form, but the distance from an end of season unacceptable result.

So I would imagine for the board a sacking would be an inability to make the top 8, this would take to about 2/3rds of the season to find out. Hence in a final year Royce ain't going to get sacked. There is a difference between an unacceptable result and a sacking result. I imagine the board would find falling outside the top 4 unacceptable, I think in terms of getting a new contract. Royce would need top 4 and a trophy of some description.

So you can look at it in many different ways, but to sack Royce would require more than just unacceptable form over a short period of time.

A good example is the first 6 games in 2007, we had 3 losses out of 6. But DA was not sacked, he was given time to change it around and we finished top 2, with the CC.

now now girls, your all getting urselves in a kufluffle, calm down calm down, 4/4 wow i didnt expect that.

Excellent post and as I posted above, I completely agree.

This may be a crude analogy given that it's a different sport but as we speak Spurs are losing 1 - 0 at Everton. If they get beat they will have lost 3 games on the trot and they have been dire so far. Will they sack Harry Redknapp?

Saints should never become a sacking Club. If we do we'll never even stand a chance of attracting a top coach.

I'm also very good friends with people at the club and my best mate is at the club and my opinion is he's not the greatest coach. (that's my opinion and not anyone I know at saints)

It may only be four disastrous performances but Potter wasn't given that long before the "your fired" finger was twitching under the desk.

I think I speak for most Saints fans, we aren't like the Wigoon fans of the 80's & 90's who almost expected success, we have tasted the bridesmaid tag enough to know that you savour every cup you win, and we have done that many times since 1996. BUT for saints fans it's more than that, we expect the team to play in a manner that is both successful and entertaining. If we lose in a GF to a better team, and play well, you'll get no complaint from me, but it seems like the team have descended into mediocre and that is bad for business in the long term. For Eamon, it's about ensuring those season ticjet holders turn up with their cash to renew next season to keep the club on a sound footing.

Even in this very harsh financial climate, with job losses and increased living costs, the fans have kept their end of the bargain, turning up and paying their money to show their support for what Eamon has done. Two of the three jigsaw pieces are in place but the club is going to need the team producing the goods to keep the fans paying their money.

It's not just about winning, it's the manner of the performances that are the most concerning. Last night, Lance got caught with no runners on three or four occasions. You had both half backs taking the line on from first receiver with no option runners whatsoever. You had Gaskell hitting lead runners on the last tackle (Dixon caught with the ball), plus Wheeler ran it himself on the last too and got caught.

The issue for Saints is that they have based their style of play around a quick PTB and short passes around the ruck. As soon as a referee allows a team to slow Saints PTB by just 1 or 2 seconds (as Hull did last night), then we don't seem to have a plan B.

We don't seem to be capable of attacking with any flair for the most part. All tries are tries but the majority of ours, against the better defensive teams, are from within 20m of the opposition line. We haven't got a Darren Albert who can score from 90m out. When Meli put JF through a hole on the 40, he panicked and put in a pointless kick that was made far too early (McKinnon had it well covered) which indicates to me a massive confidence issue. Im pretty sure it was third tackle too so could have tried to beat the full back and work off the back if the break/field position.

I've already mentioned Wellos lack of a pass with the 3 on 1 in the corner and his compounded error in dropping Perrys offload, which ended up costing us 6 points and gifting a further 6 to Hull.

Now I'm sure the players don't do these things on purpose but it does seem to indicate a little more than just a minor dip in form.

And I don't disagree with your assessment of him one bit - I have held that view since the day we appointed him knowing the reputation (or lack thereof) he has as a coach in Australia. However, sacking him now would cause more problems than it solves unless there's an absolute top class coach with a pedigree available. As far as I am aware there isn't. I don't think Eamonn will get caught up in the fans hysteria because we have lost 3 games.

Anyway, onwards and upwards. Am looking forward to next week.

Sack him and hire Sean Long with Daniel Anderson as 'Director of Rugby with a free pass to visit Australia whenever he chooses'.

If I was a chairman I'd obviously look at what's available now or at the end of the season.

I'd love DA to take charge, even if it was only to the end of the season. We need some to get the squad organised.

Never mind long coaching, get him playing!

I've learned from Phil Clarke, that bastion of statistics, that in fact most tries per se are scored from within the 20m opposition line.

However, I do agree with what you said in the rest of your post. The team is making way too many errors, some of quite an alarming type, for the problem simply to be a form thing. We have relied upon James Roby too much which is understandable to a degree with two young halves last year but this year that needs to change in case we find ourselves without him at the business end and fighting for a spot in the eight.

People always tell me about these cycles in sport, the ones in which a team that is used to winning everything suddenly fall down the ladder and look back on their past greatness, Bradford won the league in 2005.

I think it all comes to the fact we need a good halfback and the idea of playing lance there has failed as many predicted.

Also, we need to good hard working meter making prop.

I honestly think if we had signed a top scrum half and top prop we would have won all our games so far this year.

That isn't having a pop at laffranchci or lomax as both are really trying but its just not worked and Royce should hold his hand up and say he's messed up.

Double post

But is it Royce that makes those decisions or are the players signed and given to him as an assembled squad?

I'd say he signed lance, laffranchci and flanaghan.

Both flash and laffranchci are mates of his and know him.

Just read Royce's post match summary on BBC Sports with his concern over communication with the players amongst themselves. If Jammer where here he would have been bawling and shouting at the players, someone has got to lead this team across the park when things go wrong, I'm blaming the players more than the team coach at the moment, poor attitude at the moment with the exception of Tony and Sia.

Maybe you need Richie Mathers?

Potter was coming off the back of Anderson's reign - a coach who was loved and respected by pretty much every saints fan (and who seemed to add steel to Saints' defence whilst keeping much of attacking flair that Millward had brought)

It was soon apparent that the playing style coached by Potter was one of safety-first, one-out rugby and the contrast from what had come before was as stark as it was disappointing.

In Simmons' first season, we seemed to play a bit more of an adventurous game (albeit not in the same class as the Millward era, or even under Anderson). The inevitable favourable comparison to Potter's style was always going to buy Simmons time. That we reached the GF with the injury/unprofessionalism issues surrounding key players and had to blood a lot of youngsters was recognised as a major achievement amongst fans.

This season is an entirely different story. We struggled to beat London (but then, it was first game up and London were being quietly tipped as potential dark horses); we were embarassed by Salford for 40 mins and although ultimately won comfortably, were lucky to get our noses back in front (but that was passed off as nerves in our first game at LP). Since then, it's been mainly awful. Just shows how much of an influence Jammer had on the team (and invites the question: how much could we have achieved with him in the side if we'd have had better coaches 2009/10/11?)

But that aside, Simmons has been an improvement on Potter - especially as Potter took a great team that had been the dominant SL team under Anderson (notwithstanding the Leeds GF defeats) and turned them into also-rans.




Was it back in 2008 when SL/the RFL regressed from a more open game where any hint of slowing the PTB was penalised, back to the more turgid arm-wrestle type rugby, dominated by bulk and power?

I don't think Saints have ever really come to terms with the change, after using the quick PTB to such lethal effect for so long. To be fair to Potter, he at least tried to change the Saints style of play. The *only* two flaws in his plan were that it was a snoozefest to watch, and didn't even bring success.

As someone has said earlier, it would be knee-jerk to sack Simmons now and, all things considered (including the financial cost and lack of availability of a top-class replacement), it's odds-on that he's here until the end of the season. EMcM needs to spend between now and the end of the year finding a top level coach who not only can make these players fulfill their potential, but have saints playing to the expansive style we were famous for. If it costs us more, then so be it - the past 4 seasons (including this one) have demonstrated that even with top players, you need a top coach to deliver success.

In the meantime, Simmons needs to be more open to advice, and be man enough to admit his plans haven't worked and need to be rethought.

The idea of rotating players, in order to keep players fresh for the end of season play-offs and generate competition for places, is a sound one in theory. In practice, we're struggling for form, confidence and understanding between players. We need a period of stability to build bonding between the team.

The halfback pairing of Lomax and Gaskell showed flashes of brilliance last season and suggested it could, in time, be the best and most natural saints halfback couple since Longy & Tommy. Perhaps if we still had KC, Jammer & Scully on the field to marshall the team, Lomax & Gaskell could just concenytrate on their own game and understanding and grow into the roles even more. But we've had a lot of changes in the off-season, and lost our onfield leader/talisman. They're both talented, but not experienced enough to boss the team around at this stage in their careers. I also think that after their showing last season, when they were unknown quanities, opposition coaches will have done their homework on them both and better prepare to nullify them. It's time to give Lance a go at halfback - IMO preferably at scrumhalf. He may not turn out to be the answer, but he was heralded as a halfback signing and has the experience to boss a team round the park. Lomax has the versatility to be the bench back or even back Robes up or, even though I'd like to see Makinson get a run there, start at fullback.

The pack is also a problem. It seems lightweight and flimsy. Simmons needs to recognise what strengths it does have. Start off with the heaviest options to load-up. Pack the midfield and play a territorial game for the first quarter. Then bring the faster forwards on to take advantage of the cut in interchanges (which will come more into play when the weather warms up and when (if!) the ground gets drier). He needs to be smarter with his subs.

We're stuck with Simmons and the playing staff for the rest of the season - but it needs not be the write-off that some think is inevitable.

Good post and I agree with everything you've wrote but I don't think lance at 7 is the answer to our halfback problem.

I'm with you on this. When I watched the team behind the sticks on Friday, neither Wilkin nor Wello was doing anything to get the team going, and those are the two I expect to be doing something. Wello was just in a sulk - he is beginning to get on my nerves - and Wilkin was just doing nothing - he is also beginning to get on my nerves. It's time our senior players stood up, now that they don't have Jammer to rely on, and started earning their pay cheques.

Welcome to the wilkin hate fan club

:19ju6hvi

Not totally convinced myself (and said it may not be the answer). But the Lomax/Gaskell pairing is struggling and the team is crying out for some experience there. The only real alternative halves are (lacks pace, and has really only ever done well there when switched at the 11th hour so the opposition coach hasn't prepared for him playing that role)

Roby (too used to the hooker/dummyhalf role - and it would creat too much of a gap were he to move)


I just think that, out of all the genuine options we have, Lance at No7 with Gaskell* outside of him would be the most balanced choice.


* I think Wheeler is a more talented player and would be tempted to try him at 6, but I wonder if he's too similar a player to Lance, in so far as he's more effective running at the defence, rather than as a ball-handler/open play kicker.

The halfback situation is a massive problem and would have not been if we'd just signed a halfback.

Sorry if it's been posted, some rumours circulating on twitter that Royce has been sacked.

Quote ="FIOS"Sorry if it's been posted, some rumours circulating on twitter that Royce has been sacked.'" I have seen that too, but I think someone has seen Leon Pryce's tweet from tonight and come up with that conclusion, rather than any inside information. '@leonpryce6 - Heard some big news on the rugby front' https://twitter.com/#!/leonpryce6/statu ... 9506220032

Quote ="FIOS"Sorry if it's been posted, some rumours circulating on twitter that Royce has been sacked.'" I have seen that too, but I think someone has seen Leon Pryce's tweet from tonight and come up with that conclusion, rather than any inside information. '@leonpryce6 - Heard some big news on the rugby front' https://twitter.com/#!/leonpryce6/statu ... 9506220032