Good point, although the dominant pack comment is only part of the equation - I think our main issue has been the slowing down of the play the ball and Roby's problems dealing with this. It hasn't been an issue for the King, as he has a more powerfull game and more basic rugby league skills than Roby..........btw, think Moore will be back at saints next season -even if the King doesn't hang up his crown

The reduction in Roby's effectiveness is down to two things:

1 - The yearly decay of our squad, we get weaker in the forwards every year
2 - The RFL's decision to allow a longer 'wrestle' at the play the ball in an attempt to copy the NRL interpretation. This results in holding down going unpunished meaning there are no quick play the balls anymore.

1. - Agreed

2. - Do you think he can develop his game to cope with the new interpretation of the play ball?......I don't see any signs that he can unfortunately.......

No, he's a player who's main strength was his dynamic running from the quick play the ball. It took a mountain of work away from our props meaning they could have more impact.

Trent Barrett was easy the best player that season ! Under the current rules Barrett would have won it hands down!! Fact!! As he was voted players player!! Which is now man of steel !! Infact I think they changed the rules as it was quite embarrassing That roby got it infront of barrett and peacock that season!! The excuse peddled around was roby had a great trip down under?? The same tour peacock got voted world foward of the year?? How eddie hemmings and the other numties on the old mos pannel came up with roby I will never know!! Maybe he was arm wrestlein' the opposition interchanges for the half of a season he was sat on the bench??

I think roby is a great sl player!! Like a lot of players the other teams work em out a bit which has happend with roby!! He has to kick on again and I'm sure he will!!

It's a vicious circle then, unless they go back to allowing quick play the balls his contribution is nullified.

Problem for the coach to resolve tho - and he needs to do it pretty quickly.

He looked brilliant with a dominant pack and he was world class at times, but he should never of won MOS.

He is now Higham but better and thats all he is, I hope he improves his game for England but I can't see it. Someone told me ages ago that McIlorum would be better than Roby and a laughed in his face but judging on this season alone he has been better and IMO could now go on to be the better of the two.

McIlorum has similar distribution to Roby but can take the ball up much better as he is more physical and he is far better in defense.

Not sure on that one mucker. Roby is quality in defence, machine like. Robes stats would probably make McIlorums look weak on the opta stat thing on sky tv

Yes... You're right!

[urlhttp://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2009&hp1=1983&hs2=2009&hp2=2385&stat=tries&season=2009[/url

ruddy stats

oh dear

Its true that defences have tightened up around the ruck area, so Roby doesnt get as much space as in the past. However he still is an extremely effective hooker, infact

He is making on average 113 metres a game this year which is his second best average.

The top is 2007 when he made 127 metres a game.

Therefore in many respects, i think people have got used to see him make breaks so take them for granted, and conclude that he isnt playing too well.

kc as a prop next year?

I've often called for that. I can't see how he'd do a bad job. He's got the size and would have more speed than he would need for a prop, he's made yards through covering the ground quicker than most props and his upper body strength is legendary.

i think that its only going to take one brave ref to start giving penalties for holding down before all the other refs follow and it starts to speed up again so roby could well be perfect for us in the near future!

The only problem is, it wastes his key qualities of leadership and organisation at the ruck.

I dont really agree, planty props lead their team round the pitch i.e morley, peacock and even farrell in his final couple of seasons

When Roby started at 9 against Wire, he was instrumental in leading us around the park.

I am not worried.

The lads having his first hit and miss season from what i can see- It happens and i'm sure he'll come back all the stronger for it.

He's one of few players that gets me on the verge of shi*ting myself everytime he touches the ball because he's so dangerous.

If Cunningham stays on another year and Moore returns, could Roby move back to loose forward, a position he played at academy level?

We're not short of back rowers though, i'd prefer moore and roby as hookers with KC as a rotational prop if he stays, he's strong enough and its an area we need more experience in.

idiot!

Excellent well thought out post Gillers. I predict a bright future for you on here with such wit and reason! Cant wait for your third post.

Come on you saints fans on here are knowledgeable enough to know that stats are not everything. McIlorum has not played as much as Roby also.