Five points from a possible six is great but we look a little more than rusty. When I saw the fixture list for the season, I thought we had a pretty easy start compared to other teams.I thought today might have been a tough one but the fact they had the players missing I'd expected us to take both points.

I'm not impressed by anything I've seen from us this year apart from James roby.

We never look like world-beaters at the start of the season, in fact for the most part we always struggle especially against the teams we would be expected to beat, but that's the advantage of playing those teams at this stage, we can play poorly and still get the results and then move up a gear when we get to the likes of Wigan, Warrington and Leeds.

Lets not forget Warrington failed to impress against Hull FC and drew, and Wigan failed to beat an understrength Huddersfield side. That they have since put impressive scorelines on London and Bradford respectively is of little consequence, they may have done the same to Salford & Hull KR but they may also have struggled. There have been three other teams involved in Saints' matches this season and whilst our performances may have failed to impress it's also about how the opposition performs.

The facts are simple, at the moment we've got 5 points from 6, are joint top points scorers with Huddersfield, and are second in the league only on points difference. I think that's enough of a statement that we are a 'top team' after 3 games. Our defence will improve once we have a settled line-up and players reach full fitness.

Hull away and hudds away is a tough start to the season for Warrington and much harder than out start. We've played possibly two sides that will finish in the bottom three and a injury hit hull kr team.

The is being rusty due to lack of match practice and the is playing crap and st the moment we are both.

We will need to improve dramatically over the next few weeks as we've got tough games and on current form will be lucky to win.

I don't usually knee jerk but from what I've seen so far, I'm worried. Against Widnes, London and Salford we looked poor, haven't seen Hull KR as of yet but that sounded poor too. Hopefully we're starting slowly, at the minute we aren't looking like a top 4 side at all.

I'm not worried about the backs or half backs (bar wello) they're good enough to compete at the top of superleague. Its not our backrow either, with Flanaghan, wilkin and Sia and others we're fine. Its certainly not our 9. Its the props. apart from Tony P i cant see a top class one at all

All the doom and gloom from taking 5 points from a possible 6 is beyond me! Paul Wellens is probably the best full back that super league has ever seen. Perhaps, just perhaps that Saints fans do not give credit to Hull Kingston Rovers? A fantastic game of rugby league with the result a very fair result in the end. St Helens fans are very unbiased as a whole and appriciate good rugby, take todays point as a point won and give credit to the players who put their bodies on the line for the shirt they love, both the players and the supporters of both clubs are a credit to rugby league!

I knew we'd struggle at prop when jammer went and we didn't replace him with a quality prop. It's pretty clear we couldn't find a prop as good as jammer but we should have tried to get the best available instead of sticking a guy that's played 2nd row for past 12 years and expect him to slot in as a top class prop.

I think we have a problem in the halves l if Gaskell don't play or if Gaskell don't get involved when he's playing. Lomax ain't a out and out halfback and seems to want to step inside and run when it should be moved out wide and same goes for hohaia as he's not a out and out halfback either.

I think the strange recruitment of not replacing players with players that play in that postion we come back to bite us on the booty.

I went to the match.

To be brutally frank, we were poor in attack as well as defence (the scoreline speaks to the latter). We were way too lateral again and very predictable. Our props were soft again with only Soliola taking the ball forward. However, he blotted his copybook in the second half by giving away two penalties, one of which a few tackles later was a try by them. Wello shouldn't have been on the field even though he scored (thanks to some nifty footwork by Hohaia). He dropped one across the line, dropped a bomb which led to a try and was all over the place. There were some seriously stupid passes going on, including from Robes, and one went into touch.

From my own POV our performance today looked like one of attitude, much as the one we put out against Quins at home last year was. We missed Gaskell and we missed Makinson. We could do with two props because clearly neither TP nor Perry want to do the job they are paid to do.

The only two players who stood out for me this time were Soliola (until the penalties) and Wheeler (who wasn't on all that long as he was the back on the bench but he looked fantastic when he was on and it was a real shame he wasn't brought on for the second half - in the halves).

I'm not doom and gloom though because we were even worse last year. Whether we will improve as we did last year remains to be seen but regardless of that with the players we had in the team we should have won by a comfortable margin and let in fewer than half the points we shipped.

Good honest post without making excuses for saints and I totally agree!

Well done for going; I'm ashamed to admit I could only listen to it on the radio and even with mersysided bias we sounded just as you described.

A lot of peole on here are saying the pack was the weak link; the commentary didn't back that up - it was mistakes at centre and the wings e.g grubber kicks and high balls (as well as a few howlers from wello) where there tries cam; not through the middle.

I'm glad Wheeler did well in his short stint - although many don't agree with me on here (tony s etc), I still believe he is our long term SO and has never had a poor game there.

Just watched the highlights on Super League Fulltime and I have to say it showed Wellens in a very poor light. One KR try in particular showed just how slow he is now, it looked like he was running through treacle. He was also arriving late to 2 other tries, which had he been in the correct position may not have been scored. His Achilles injury seems to have taken even more pace away from him, which he couldn't afford.

The sentimentality with Wellens has gone too far now, he's past it. He was a great Full Back in his prime but sadly he isn't up to the job anymore, I'll stick my neck out and say (judging only by the highlights) that had Makinson been playing FB today we would have won. I'm not saying Wellens cost us the game, but he certainly cost us a couple of tries with his slow slow running.

I thought it was disgraceful that Flannery started over Dixon and a travesty that Wheeler was on the bench, arguably our two best players last week. Just because a player takes up a quota spot shouldn't automatically guarantee his selection in the team. Both Wheeler and Dixon should have started today, the reports are that Wheeler looked very good in his short spell and a real threat, again could he have made the difference? Gaskell will be back from injury next week so it will be interesting what happens there.

So you say if it wasnt for Wellens today you would have won??? Dont be silly, maybe Hull KR were pretty good in attack? How you can blame Wellens for a draw today is quite frankly rediculous! You didnt lose!!!!!!!!! Your forwards were the reason you did not win today, out played by the KR pack, god help you if Hull KR had Dobson, Green and Galea playing, you would have hung Wellens from the nearest lampost! You were not playing Swinton today, maybe Hull Kingston Rovers are quite a good team, up there in the top 6!

Is Gaskell definitely back next week and what was he out with?

That was half the reason. The other half was our defence.

And while your pack was outstanding, we did give away a 14 point lead, and very quickly after we had achieved it. That is poor by anyone's books and is irrelevant of whether your pack was good or whether you'll make the top six or anything else for that matter. Our defence was abysmal, as was yours. No coach will be happy with shipping 36 points and few fans will be either, whether it's round three or round twenty three.

Clearly didn't read my post properly so I won't bother reading the rest of yours.

Leg strain, should be fine for Friday as long as there's no set backs.

...and so the kneejerking begins... Give it a couple of losses over the next few weeks and the annual calls from the clueless masses to sign up a bunch of amateurs to "at least show some pride in the shirt" will begin to pour out in earnest too. I do enjoy reading those...

Frankly the season is going exactly to plan so far in the greater scheme of things - we're playing to a fraction of our potential, rotating a few players (at least I [ihope[/i that's why Wheeler was left out), grinding out a few results and getting more wins than losses overall, and not picking up too many injuries along the way - exactly what is necessary at this point in the season. If we're labouring like this still come August then we can all start to panic. Until then, just get a bleedin' grip some of you...

Wheeler wasn't left out due to rotation apparently, he was just left out. The only thing I have a problem with at this stage in the season is selection. I said earlier I was worried about the team as we have looked very poor so far, but also went on to say we may be starting slowly, the next 6 or 7 games will be a good indication of how our season will go.

Don't normally post on here but I go to every game home and away and after going today I wanted to share my views on todays game.

It was and this is no exaggeration the worst defensive performance I've seen saints put in for a good while. The tackling technique was non-existant, which caused us to lose the collision, which then resulted in us being put on the backfoot time and time again. It's something that has become more and more apparent as each game goes by. One on one tackles being missed, lack of communication and basic tackling technique just appears to be missing - which was highlighted today. It was so frustrating to know that whenever Hull KR got within 20 yards of our line they were going to score!! Champion teams should have a pride in defending their line, they defend it as though their lives depend on it and at no time today was that in evidence and hasn't been for some time.

Attacking wise we weren't to bad. The first 20 minutes we played really well with ball in hand. We looked confident and looked potent when attacking the defensive line with options aplenty, but their forwards took control of ours and I can't remember us completing a set after the first 20 mins. But credit to Hull KR they just starved us of possession and capitalised on our mistakes. Great to see Shenton back and thought Soliola played well again and Lomax wasn't to bad. We miss Gaskell when he doesn't play though due to his kicking in general play. Lomax is no kicker - he needs someone to take the responsibilty off him and control that part of the game. This is why Gaskell and Lomax work so well together, they compliment each others strengths.

Now in regards to some of the players as individuals. I really hope we don't use Lance Hohaia at 6 for the 4 years he is with us. It's the first time he as played 6 competitively for us this season and in my opinion he didn't cover himself in much glory, which resulted in him being taken off for Wheeler. Maybe people will disagree but if he is to play anywhere then it has to be full back, it's the onlt position at present I can see him fitting in (even though I'd have Makinson there for the next 10 years). Gaskell, Wheeler and Lomax should form our 6 and 7 partnership for the foresable future - they have earned the chance after their performances last year. The recruitment of Hohaia felt like and still feels like a panic buy. After the Eastmond saga last year it felt like the club were trying to create a postive spin on all the problems we were going through at the time, with no real idea as to where Hohaia was going to play. I suppose none of us expected Lomax and Gaskell to perform to the level they did but now we are left with a real problem. At the end of the day Hohaia has to play as he has been signed as a marquee player, but the big question is where?

Another problem area that we have to sort is Wellens. The guy is a legend of our club and I don't care what anyone says he was a top full back - regardless of his lack of pace. His positioning, organisation and all round contribution to the team from full back over the years has been first class. But as with everything in life it never lasts and we have to move on. The modern day full back needs speed.... end of story and with every game Wellens plays the lack of speed is highlighted. Like today for example..... Craig Hall kicks through for a kick and chase and Wellens just didn't have the speed not only to deal with it but to have any chance of dealing with it. I love Wellens as does every other Saints fan but if we are serious about becoming a champion side once again then we have to part with him.....hard as that is to say. We have in my opinion a ready made replacement in Tommy Makinson ready to take over. He is as commanding under the high ball as Wellens is and is probably the fastest player in the Saints ranks at present - to me it just makes sense.

The forwards as a whole haven't impressed me this season either. We don't have what you would call as out and out prop forwards. 2006 we had the pack - Graham, Anderson, Cayless, Wilkin, Sculthorpe, Fozzard, Maurie. Each one had a role and they knew what it was. Our current pack doesn't have the aggression or the go forward that the '06 one had. Maybe I'm being harsh as they are new players settling into a new team and environment, but at the end of the day whether you are playing in Austraila or England or for whatever club you play at the same principle applies as a forward. Run hard and tackle with aggression and I don't see that in the games I've watched this season.

My post probably reads as a little negative given that we are undefeated and are second in the table. But from the posts I've read and Royce's comment after the game it seems like we are all unamimous that it's not all as positive as our league position should proclaim. The good thing is there is plenty of room for improvement and I don't think we well defend as bad as that again (or at least I hope we don't).

"Was it our strongest side? Well that's debatable. I'll decide on that when I look at the video. Paul Clough, Tommy Makinson, Shaun Magennis didn't play and we had the luxury of leaving a couple out, but yes it was a good side.

"A point gained or lost? At the end of the day we let in 36 points so I don't care too much about the one point really. I want to fix the 36 points up."


A telling statement from the coach. He is one unhappy bunny.

Very very good post and I totally agree with everything in your post. You should post more often.

This rotation thing he's doing every week is something else I don't agree with, I'm all for giving players rests but lets be honest, makinson don't need a rest, he's 20yrs old, only played two games this year! Clough hardly played last year and is a young guy so he do t need resting.

I'm sorry but this is another thing I don't agree with that Royce is doing.


How can a coach who plays with 16 most weeks while players are out on their feet then say he needs to rest players? I flogged sia, jammer and roby last year while we had someone sat on the bench for 80 mins!

Is he resting players?

Or is he giving everyone in the squad (who are likely to be a regular first teamer) a chance to get up to match speed and stake a claim for a spot?

So everyone with a differant opinion to yours is clueless



People pay there money and are entitled to there opinion, that display yesterday defensively was abysmall and requires slating.

I think a lot our defensive problems stem from the scrum half position. A good half isn't only the playmaker and place kicker - he also sets the defensive pattern and controls the line.

Too many people are confusing Lomax's - admittedly good - attacking performances at scrum half with [ibeing a good scrum half[/i.