Yet they destroy the England pack easily and let the Australian backs score seemingly at will

Strange.

That must make the England pack even worse than I thought

You are so clueless! It's like the grand final, saints had the better pack, but our backs are pretty bad, and we got ripped to shreds.
It's in the backs were oz are massively better than us

Australia are better than England in all aspects of the game.

Look, people have been saying for as long as I can remember that Englands pack are awesome no one in the world can compete with them blah blah waffle waffle

Yet it simply isn't true.

England get flogged everytime.

If Englands packs were as superb as everyone says then the Australian backs wouldnt even see the ball for 80 mins



Jeeeeeeeeeez

Do people STILL actually believe this?

Where is the evidence for this? 9 times out of 10 the aussie pack SMASHES the english pack, yet they are average? We hear it every...single...year

You didn't .You where outplayed in the forwards as much as you where in the backs.

We still had the best pack. It just didn't fire on the night.

So what you are really saying is.....

You didn't have the best pack

The best pack is the one that delivers the goods.In the Grand Final it was Wigan who had the best pack.

That's what I said.

My understanding of the conversation was that someone said Wigan had the best pack per se, not that they had the best pack on the night. I agree that they had the best pack at the Grand Final, yes. They had the best everything at the Grand Final. That's why they won!

Looking at the whole season Wigan have had the best forwards and backs all the way through ,that why they finished top.

A very simplistic view that suits a simple mind. Sometimes the best team doesnt always contain the best players.

Especially considering pretty much the same bunch of players at Wigan were a far inferior team last year.

Im not sure where this idea comes from that saints have the best pack. Bryn Hargreaves was your starting prop, Flannery in the second row and then to bring on Paul Clough and Jake Emmitt. Those players dont really worry the opposition much?

They didn't at the Grand Final but clearly they did do throughout the season (and you've forgotten James Graham, Tony Puletua, who often acted as a prop and Cunningham, likewise). We were only two losses behind you by the end of the season. I think that says how effective our pack was, especially given that for the final third we played without our playmakers.

A lot of you are mentioning Tony Puletua as one of your top props for next season. You have also being telling us how well you were off for backrow forwards. So how come Puletua played most of his games in the back row for Saints this season?

Quite simply Tonys second row spot should go to Solioa next season should he stay fit

He often played as prop for us in 2010 once Maurie was out injured (about four months ago). Same with Cloughie, another second rower who had to step up. With our two new recruits at prop, Graham may have some support but Tony P at prop wouldn't be detrimental to us at all as he plays well there.

How often is often?
Even when Maurie was available and didn't play (at the end of the season) Puletua still played in the back row or loose forward.

Often.

But not often enough to make him regular.

I know nothing of his bowel movements.

He started games in the back row but had stints in the game as a front row. I'm pretty certain you know this and your just being a smartar$e

That's why I'm not discussing it with him.

You are missing the point. He is being lauded as part of the next years Superleagues best front row, yet couldn't get a starting spot in this years front row in front of Fozzard, Hargreaves, Maurie and Graham.

Please explain how this miraculous transformation is about to happen.

You are talking rubbish Rogues.