While we didn't get the calls tonight, and one or two calls were dodgy to say the least, they weren't the reason we lost IMO. We came with a much, much better attitude than we had against Wigan. However, our defence was poor again, we lost our composure again (meaning brainfarts) and we dropped too much ball again.

Having said all that, I was anticipating a loss and so I am not feeling the shock of last week. I thought it was quite sad that we lost tonight actually when clearly we did actually have the ability to win. Had those things that I just listed not been a part of our game.

We aren't ready to beat the teams above us. Maybe this season we won't be. Or maybe we will. Still nine games to go to find out, I guess.

just like to say that you as fans were great today stayed to the end even after the drop goal by briers. well done. a lot of teams fans would have started to walk (not mentioning any names) but not you, great support for your team.

edited for accuracy

We where decent, but not great. No one should win after giving an 18 - 0 head start. Other than 10 mins we where good. But that's the same as saying apart from losing we would have won.

Dodgy calls? Dreaming love. Silverwood piggy backed you up the field most of the time. Granted, you made use of the field position brilliantly against the leagues best defence. But don't make out you had a rough day from the ref.

Er, I didn't. I was saying that it wasn't the ref who was the problem, as you would know if you read the first sentence of my post.

I see you are using the penalty count 1 in your favour to say we got the calls from the ref again.


Are you just ignoring the penalties you got which gave you field position to score????

Don't forget back then you were too busy breaking the salary cap anyway.

I really didn't think it was obstruction, for me it was a fair try, the unfortunate thing is the amount that get disallowed wrongly over the season.

Lomax at Bradford being a recent case.

What a prize chump. Masterclass in how to make yourself look an idiot. Hope your enjoyed your brief little laugh.

It's difficult to say if it is or isnt I suppose (being as the rules seem to change every year) but it seems funny that whenever we get Ian Smith he 'interprets' them in whatever way most disadvantages Saints.

In my simple view of 'obstruction' though the question is simple, was Meli obstructed from making a challenge and in my view he was.

Id like to see Saints make the 8th though to be honest. Reckon they'd offer more than what, say, Salford would offer.

Having just watched the match back, I would agree with you. But it was Smith as VR and there was no way he was going to give us anything. He's probably still seeing Daniel Anderson in his dreams.

it really wasn't, and theres not point going into it any further since its you.

Correct it wasn't. Monaghan actually released Foster and his momentum took him over the touch line.

No, it wasn't. Monaghan was clever. He played the ref. I think Foster learned a valuable lesson there.

Even though foster wasn't happy with friday"s result,latest news from st'helens suggests he's made up with his new car after winning the crossbar challenge.

I just think Saints are still a little behind the other 3 clubs in team development, following their disjointed start to the season. Hopefully we can get everything in order for the playoffs.

Regarding refs/VR decisions:
I decided a while ago that (in order not to drive myself bonkers) the only time you can critcise an official call is if there is 100% no reason or excuse that the decision went against us (ie this season Hardaker's try at Headingly following a massive forward pass, or Bradford having an extra tackle at Odsal). However, it is hard to swallow when you compare the Lomax no try from Odsal with the Wire try from friday (even other supporters must understand us feeling a little hard done to, if you compare these).

We had a bad start and perhaps the comeback took too much out of us to then close it down. We didn't get the bounce of the ball on a couple of occasions, perhaps, but we let some silly mistakes ruin a lot of good work - eastomnd's excellent long kick which he followed up with a high tackle, or us getting a scrum in their terriory and Lomax knocking on in the first play. As the wet conditions continued, we seemed to loose to many balls, when we should have closed things down. Our pack had got to grips with Wire and I thought I could see the old crazy wolf team emerging, desperate to throw those panicy offloads, but they regained their composure (much thanks to the reintroduction of Monoghan) and came back.

I was sorry to see the re-emergence of Jammer's temper tantrum in the first 15 minutes. I thought (hoped) we'd seen the last of that sort of thing.

In answer to Rogues question. I can't talk surely about wages, but LMS is a much more impressive player than Hargreaves. Who was an able squad member, bot you'd never want him as anything more than a 4th choice prop (at a top half table club). Louis's had queit days (the wigan game), but sometimes you'd see Bryn against big packs and think that he wasn't quite up to it physically. LMS showed some decent go forward in the face of the biggest team around on Friday, although I think he takes a few strides to get his strength up, rather than being able to drive in the tackle like Perry, Clough or Graham.

I'm waiting for the announcement of signing Chris Hill or another prop, as I think we really need another squad member in this position. Although Laffranchi has been vaunted as a prop for next year, I see him playing the role as our 3rd prop (which is everyone elses loose forward). As soon as we get an injury in this group of players, our pack looks light.

I read somewhere that LMSs metres per carry is second only to Tony Puletua out of the top 25 metre makers in Super League. Some 1.5 metres more than Ginger Graham.

He's made a fine start, just needs to add some ego and chest beating intimidating to his game. I thought he was great at the weekend. Everyone bleats on about Morley, but look at the first hit Morley put in and what it actually did to LMS, then look who LMS runs the ball at the next few times he's running it up away from the line or following kick offs, Morley.

Agreed. I do think he struggles when the defence is up on him quick and he can't get a head of steam up. I think that more static side of his strength will naturally develop as he gets older, although a neither Jammer or Perry are that quick on the floor, so perhaps he should concentrate on being our more Dynamic prop.

It's really beginning to get on my wick. It just sends out all the wrong signals when your captain has completely lost his cool. Warrington must have been rubbing their hands when he started his now familiar ranting and raving.

I think this is a great summary of the match.

I may only have been a Rugby union player, but it was a well discussed point that you knew you had a team for Liverpool beat when they started bitching (it would usually be amongst themselves, mind).

It was far from perfect, but it was a performance that made me think we [icould[/i be a real contender in the playoffs, if we polish things up as a team. I have a lot of faith in our playing roster (at least, the first 18 names).

IMO we lack some class in the backs, we've got no real great attacking weapon in the backs or a " go to player" when we need to break up a tight game which IMO puts us behind Warrington, Wigan and hudds. In the past we've had pure quality which pull things out the bag when we need it or look down and out.

I'll prob get shot down for this but I'll say it anyway. I think we are in urgent need of a quality 6 or 7. Gaskell and lomax are two young kids who've been fantastic for saints this year and can't be knocked but IMO we've got two options with them, we either stick with them both at 6 and 7 but need to accept that in all honesty we will be a team fighting for a top four spot for the next 3/4 years as they learn their trade and develop into the players we hope they can be

Or

We stick with one of them and bring a good quality halfback in who can run the game, move us around the park and take control. At the moment Gaskell has been pretty steady and looks to have great long kicking game but he goes missing for large periods of the game. Lomax looks to have raw natural talent but at the moment he's showing it only in flashes and isn't being involved enough in the ball handling and at the moment isn't capable of controlling a game. So basically we are counting more more and on the forwards and especially Jon wilkin ( who's in the best form for years) and James roby to make things happen with the ball. I know lance looks to be playing in the halves next year but he's a runner, he likes to take the line on and isn't a ball player.

Before people start shooting me down ( saintsfan

), I'm in no way shape or form bagging Gaskell or lomax as they have exceeded our expectations this year and done us very proud but I'm saying we either stick with them and give them time but expect to be a team on the verge of the top four for few years or get a halfback signed and hope he can create a little more with the ball and move us round the park.

Also, what the hell has happened to wello over the last few weeks? He looks like he's finished, he can't even take the high balls now which he's been so safe with for the last 10 years or so. To be honest I've been shocked at how poor he's looking.