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| Quote ="G1".It is but that doesn't make the statement that he "has no kicking game" any more accurate.
He does have a kicking game. A decent one. At international level, when playing against the worlds' best his kicking game might not be good enough but then again when has any aspect of any English/GB player been good enough when up against the Aussies in the last 30 years.
We can only go with the best that we've got and that is what we've done. No point getting knickers in a twist if the best isn't good enough, which it isn't. We must recognise that the whole game needs to improve and that all other clubs must follow the lead set by leeds and Saints in producing young, British players. From an England standpoint I am pleased that there seems to finally be some competition for the halves with McGuire, Eastmond, Myler, Tomkins, Burrow and if he gets back on form Pryce. think back a few years when it was either Long or deacon and .......erm.....well.....erm
We need that kind of depth and more besides in all positions.
That is the discussion we should be having.
Alternatively, keep taking some perverse pleasure out of McGuire's failings as an England player because you couldn't scratch that itch while he was a Leeds player.
because the thing that all these comments on here, the VT and Wigans' forum spectacularly miss is that McGuire, Smith Sinfield and other others are playing for the team you support as much as I now and I gain no pleasure from the failings of any of England's players.'"
Well you seem to be putting down "Your" England half-back, Sam Tomkins at every opportunity. Espescially from the comfort of your own Leeds forum where you can get ready support from similarly minded one-eyed Leeds fans. Maybe you should practice what you preach and actually have a go at supporting him...a radical idea, I know....
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| Quote ="Phuzzy"Well you seem to be putting down "Your" England half-back, Sam Tomkins at every opportunity. Espescially from the comfort of your own Leeds forum where you can get ready support from similarly minded one-eyed Leeds fans. Maybe you should practice what you preach and actually have a go at supporting him...a radical idea, I know....'" That's just fiction.
Let me summarise what I've written about Tomkins.
Anonymous 1st half. Said he looked overawed and challenged silly, childish comments from Wigan fans that he was so absent because Sinfield and McGuire wouldn't pass to him.
Said he was excellent second half and praised him. Offered a word of caution about his over reliance on his step off the left, jink to the right move.
Have consistently said McGuire was poor. I suggested the halves this week should be Sinfield and Tomkins.
So I think you have me confused with someone else or, frankly, you're just making things up.
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| Quote ="G1"Except in the last 15 mins of that game the half back combination was actually Sinfield and Tomkins, with Eastmond playing a roving role from the right centre. But you're right, we did look better with Sinfield and Tomkins as halves. Just as we looked better with Sinfield at 9.'"
You must have been watching a different game to me then. Eastmond started the second half at right centre and was moved inside (probably due to the inept performance of McGuire). Either that, I just imagined him and Tomkins creating numerous chances down the middle after a lovely pass out wide for Smith's try?
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| Quote ="Billinge_Lump"
I take no pleasure in him and Sinfield being average/poor for England. I did not cheer McGuire off, I want to see the team win and be champions. Whilst any player is wearing an international jersey I will support them, even the likes of O'Loughlin and Westwood. That doesn't mean I won't criticise after the match when they have a stinker, just as I do when Saints players do it.
The fact that I want any player to have an utter stinker every time they play against Saints doesn't alter that fact, so direct you ire in that respect elsewhere.'" Fair enough. balanced, informed criticism I can handle. I dish plenty of it out. I've dished plenty of it out about McGuire and Smith this past week.
However, I stand by my post and the majority of the comments are just a cheap opportunity for Wigan and Saints fans to get their digs in whilst they can.
No skin off my nose. Like I said, they're not Leeds players, they're England players and i can appreciate why, especially Wigan fans, have been feverishly awaiting this opportunity, given their "heroes" domestic failings year after year.
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| Quote ="G1"Fair enough. balanced, informed criticism I can handle. I dish plenty of it out. I've dished plenty of it out about McGuire and Smith this past week.
However, I stand by my post and the majority of the comments are just a cheap opportunity for Wigan and Saints fans to get their digs in whilst they can.
No skin off my nose. Like I said, they're not Leeds players, they're England players and i can appreciate why, especially Wigan fans, have been feverishly awaiting this opportunity, given their "heroes" domestic failings year after year.'" totally bang on! I've said similar at the start of this thread, for most it is a chance to get the digs in! Nothing more nothing less! the fact people are so pig headed is quite disturbing! But not suprising! I haven't seen one Leeds fan who hasn't said mcguire had a poor game! so I can't see how were are all defending him? But pointing out what is obviously the motivation for most having pop has to be done !
You dont know how silly you all look! Didn't you learn anything from sinfield? now he's shut you all up for at least a week!
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| Quote ="sgtwilko"totally bang on! I've said similar at the start of this thread, for most it is a chance to get the digs in! Nothing more nothing less! the fact people are so pig headed is quite disturbing! But not suprising! I haven't seen one Leeds fan who hasn't said mcguire had a poor game! so I can't see how were are all defending him? But pointing out what is obviously the motivation for most having pop has to be done !
You dont know how silly you all look! Didn't you learn anything from sinfield? now he's shut you all up for at least a week!'"
Yes Danny!!!! We know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
. <---- This is a full stop. Start using it and you can stop looking silly like us.
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| Quote ="G1"Fair enough. balanced, informed criticism I can handle. I dish plenty of it out. I've dished plenty of it out about McGuire and Smith this past week.
However, I stand by my post and the majority of the comments are just a cheap opportunity for Wigan and Saints fans to get their digs in whilst they can.
No skin off my nose. Like I said, they're not Leeds players, they're England players and i can appreciate why, especially Wigan fans, have been feverishly awaiting this opportunity, given their "heroes" domestic failings year after year.'"
Only if you'll admit that far better players than McGuire, Burrows & Sinfield were taking criticism from Leeds/Other teams fans who were "Feverishly" desperate for them to fail because they're "Heroes" were failing domestically.
Those same players were still by far and away the best players to pick for England at that time and performed far better for many years against the Aussies & Kiwis albeit without winning a Big one i.e Test Series/World Cup.
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| Quote ="G1"
However, I stand by my post and the majority of the comments are just a cheap opportunity for fans of almost every other opposition club to get their digs in whilst they can.'"
Typo etc....
This type of criticism occurs after every international match about any big name player, Leeds fans revelled in these type of posts about Long, Wellens and Pryce in recent years. Saints fans reacted just the way you and other Leeds fans are doing and were scoffed at, pretty much the same way you lot are being scoffed at now.
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| Quote ="Smurf"You must have been watching a different game to me then. Eastmond started the second half at right centre and was moved inside (probably due to the inept performance of McGuire). Either that, I just imagined him and Tomkins creating numerous chances down the middle after a lovely pass out wide for Smith's try?'" You're wrong. When McGuire was substituted Sinfield came back on and played 6. Eastmond was allowed a roaming role in attack but he defended in the right centre.
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| Quote ="Billinge_Lump"Typo etc....
This type of criticism occurs after every international match about any big name player, Leeds fans revelled in these type of posts about Long, Wellens and Pryce in recent years. Saints fans reacted just the way you and other Leeds fans are doing and were scoffed at, pretty much the same way you lot are being scoffed at now.'" I take no pleasure in ANY PLAYERS being average/poor for England. I did not scoff at Long Pryce and Wellems, I want to see the team win and be champions. Whilst any player is wearing an international jersey I will support them, even the likes of Long and Pryce. That doesn't mean I won't criticise after the match when they have a stinker, just as I do when Leeds players do it.
The fact that I want any player to have an utter stinker every time they play against Leeds doesn't alter that fact, so direct you ire in that respect elsewhere.
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| Quote ="G1"I take no pleasure in ANY PLAYERS being average/poor for England. I did not scoff at Long Pryce and Wellems, I want to see the team win and be champions. Whilst any player is wearing an international jersey I will support them, even the likes of Long and Pryce. That doesn't mean I won't criticise after the match when they have a stinker, just as I do when Leeds players do it.
The fact that I want any player to have an utter stinker every time they play against Leeds doesn't alter that fact, so direct you ire in that respect elsewhere.'"
Are you going to attend THIS week.
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| Quote ="G1"I take no pleasure in ANY PLAYERS being average/poor for England. I did not scoff at Long Pryce and Wellems, I want to see the team win and be champions. Whilst any player is wearing an international jersey I will support them, even the likes of Long and Pryce. That doesn't mean I won't criticise after the match when they have a stinker, just as I do when Leeds players do it.
The fact that I want any player to have an utter stinker every time they play against Leeds doesn't alter that fact, so direct you ire in that respect elsewhere.'"
I don't really see the point in this post. You appear to be taking the term 'Leeds fans' and taking that I mean every single Leeds fan, whilst I am using the term in a general way I did not mean that I thought [ievery single[/i Leeds fan gloated like a c0ck at the poor performances of various Saints players in international jerseys. I accept that you personally may not have done, but plenty others did.
In the same vein, whilst many Saints fans are gloating like c0cks over the poor performances of Leeds players in this series, not all of us hope to see those performances continue.
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Are you going to attend THIS week.
'"
I'll be there. I can't wait to do some serious booing
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| Get ready for the typicall shouts of 'Yarkshire, Yarkshire' on Saturday.
Sounds the thickest chant in world sport when a couple of Yorkshire men shout it.
As we're slagging Leeds players off. Jamie Peacock should also be stepped down as England captain for the reason only that he speaks (or tries) like Taz the Tazmanian devil.
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| Quote ="The Wizard"Get ready for the typicall shouts of 'Yarkshire, Yarkshire' on Saturday.
Sounds the thickest chant in world sport when a couple of Yorkshire men shout it.
As we're slagging Leeds players off. Jamie Peacock should also be stepped down as England captain for the reason only that he speaks (or tries) like Taz the Tazmanian devil.'"
You gonna tell him ?
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| Quote ="vernon"You gonna tell him ?'"
I'll tell him....
....By email
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| Quote ="eddiewaringsflatcap"I'll tell him....
....By email'"
You think he knows how to open an e-mail?
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| Quote Quote ="G1".
That's just fiction.
Let me summarise what I've written about Tomkins.
Anonymous 1st half. Said he looked overawed and challenged silly, childish comments from Wigan fans that he was so absent because Sinfield and McGuire wouldn't pass to him.
Said he was excellent second half and praised him. Offered a word of caution about his over reliance on his step off the left, jink to the right move.
Have consistently said McGuire was poor. I suggested the halves this week should be Sinfield and Tomkins.
So I think you have me confused with someone else or, frankly, you're just making things up.'"
Or I could be wise to your attempts to dress up "sly" digs (your phrase levelled at Fearthevee) as something altogether more reasonable. I will say that generally I think your posts are good, reasonable and informed. It's just a bit rich for you to beat the 'get behind the lads 'cos they're wearing an England shirt' whilst at the same time taking every opportunity to have a go at young Sam Tomkins. These are your quotes from the Leeds site. Now I'm not sure of your motivation, other than he isn't a Leeds player, but I think dressing it up as anything other than 'having a go' is hypocritical to say the least
And if one eyed Wigan fans think its' Sinfield and McGuires fault that Tomkins couldn;t get his hands on the ball for 50 mins then you have to question whether the kid is up to it yet. Do you think Andy Gregory would've let other players monopolise the ball?
Tomkins is not yet a dominating half back. He was completely overawed in the 1st half. The only people to blame for that are Tomkins himself and Smith for perhaps selecting him when he wasn't ready.
2nd half, Tomkins was much better but he will have to develop more to his game than that predictable step.'"
Quote Bullseye wrote: there's no overnight solution to this.
Of course there is. Its' called Sam Tomkins.
Just keep the useless Leeds players out of his way and the 4 nations, ashes and World Cup are ours for the taking.'"
Quote christopher wrote: Tomkins didn't start to play until around 65 minutes into the game so I cant see why he's being labelled as some kind of wonder kid.
Didn't you know, that was Sinfield and McGuire's fault. '"
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