And 5 of those 25 where against Chris Bridge in one match.

Never let facts get in the way of a good opinion.

And Wigan made plenty of yards in the Grand Final, granddad. Ultimately it's less about the number of yards or tackles made or missed - but such's impact upon the only statistic that matters.

After all, there are mistakes and there are GAME BLOWING HOWLERS.

But, for instance) Sarginson was completely dominated by Bridge in that game at Wire. No one has ever done that to Tuner while he has been at Saints and I can't imagine anyone shy of an Inglis standing a chance.

It would be interesting to go back and have a look at the nature of each miss.

You brought the relative defensive qualities of the two players up and as usual have been shown up for being completely wrong, but don't let facts get in the way of your inability to understand what goes on.

No they weren't.
And Turner missed six v Leeds

Correct, it was 3 against Chris Bridge, seemed a bit more. The 5 misses where against the Catalans. Think its Charnley who is the turnstile in the Wigan side.

Anyway, I'd agree. Turner is a very good player for and underrated by many (including Roguey).

He was devastating in France, had he stayed on the result may have well gone differently, in other recent weeks he's scored tries by bumping of the substantial frames of both Joel Tomkins and Ben Westwood. Good Hands/Plenty of assists. A judicious decision maker ball in hand. Comes up with some lovely kicks from the centre channel which give us an extra option towards the end of the set.

Despite an alleged high missed tackle count, they rarely seem to grab peoples attention, so can't be at important times/situations, but once a game he does tend to come up with an absolute crunching tackle. Given how quickly fans are to get on a players back AND how some "fans" love to slag off Turner no matter what, if his missed tackles were costing us, someone (other than the old pieman) would be harping on about it.

Have you forgotten to buy a fresh pad of Post-It notes to scribble reminders about who said what - you know, as an aid to your fossilised brain - like the guy out of Memento? It was YOU who brought up statistics. And it was YOUR FANS who described Sarginson as a "Turnstile" (and worse!).

I'm not knocking Turner for the brilliant kick or indeed anything else but I thought the try was offside. Can't argue with the VR though can I?

At the absolute worst I thought McDonnell was level. A "benefit of the doubt" situation if ever I saw one.

Turner is a decent centre but his defence is a massive worry. It's weird as he can put in some really good hard shots but the min he has to make a decision or a player has foot work then Hes in a world of trouble. He misses about 4/5 tackles most weeks which isn't good enough on the edges.

It seems if he makes few breaks but misses 5 tackles that fans say he had a good game. People was ranting and raving about him at catalan because he was ripping holes in them but at the same time he was missing tackles and being caught out regular in the short time he played.

It depends on the circumstances, and the short memories of fans, I suppose. If he misses 5 tackles, but is either saved by the winger, or his miss means the winger is out of position and looks to be to blame for the missed tackle then it's forgotten. IMO missed tackles are only remembered if they pretty much directly lead to an obvious try or big gain (ie the oppo centre strolls straight through the hole Tuner has created).

Missed tackles are what puts teams under pressure and field position so it does effect even if not directly causes a try.

I agree, I'm referring to your comment "It seems if he makes few breaks but misses 5 tackles that fans say he had a good game"

The fans will all see and remember the breaks, but I'm not sure all fans see (or remember) the 5 missed tackles.

Turner's missed tackle stats are precisely that - stats. Whilst statistics offer some measure of qualitative assessment, separated from their CONTEXT, they form only part of a much bigger picture.

The bigger picture at Saints - as evidenced not just by Turner but Swift's actions also, is that both players are encouraged to blaze out of the line and smash the ball carrier in an attempt to compensate for Saints stacking the majority of its defenders in the middle of the field.

This puts tremendous pressure on both players to "get it right" else we concede an easy try. Very often they do get it right. But there are occasions when other teams move just that bit quicker, or utilise dummy runners to confuse the defenders.

There's nothing forcing Saints to employ this defensive strategy. They could just as easily switch to a more balanced pattern - which would certainly help both Turner and Swift's numbers.

Given that they don't I can only assume they are broadly happy with Turner's defence and accept those errors which are made as the inevitable price which must be paid for having a very strong defence overall (according to the figures - 2nd).

Its very difficult to criticise him too much because he has had a pretty positive impact on all our games, much improved performances this season made lots of tackle busts and put in some big hits as well. As people have already said we are not sure if these misses led to try's scored in the set, I think Walsh made 6 tackles last week and missed 5 of those, but I don,t think anybody has brought this up at the moment.

I didn't see the Cas game and not seen any stats but I don't think Luke should be immune if those stats are correct. That's pathetic if true.

If you are going to bag Turner for missed tackles you should include half the team as well.

Bag the team in the "Turner" thread ?

People are doing well to find reasons to bag him given his form.

I don't see how stating he misses about 4/5 tackles a match is bagging him. I'm going off the stats and my own eyes. Everyone knows he's dodgy in defence.

He is playing well with the ball tho.

Any wonder he misses tackles when he has to keep one eye on the clown outside of him.

He doesn,t miss 4 to 5 tackles a match though its more like a 2.6 missed tackle average. 48 missed tackles over 18 games, and we could probably chalk off a couple of tackles with players either side of him mis reading defensive plays.

His stats show:

2 x 0 missed
2 x 1 missed
1 x 2 missed
10 x 3 missed
2 x 4 missed
1 x 6 missed

The Leeds game was the shocker for lots of our players Turner missed 6 accompanied by 2 others with Walmsley missing 9 tackles.


Turner is a "big player" for us, he is our best for try's scored, best for try assists and best for clean breaks.

I know those Walsh stats are wrong because I saw him with my own eyes make more than one successful tackle. His last tackle was a wonderful try saver in the second half when we were down to 12 men. He isn't the best tackler in the world but then halfbacks can be like that and I believe that's largely accepted. He does make tackles though and definitely more than one!

I have no problem with Turner. I think he's been a great player for us this season.