I think its time saints had a clean break break of the current coach and his staff. For the past 3yrs we've not progressed and the have been no new ideas. We still only have the one move we've had since the potter days.

IMO a new coach with his own staff with fresh no ideas is what's needed. Its been the same old crap for past three years so KP must shoulder some of the Blame and not just Simmons.

The players look bored and unmotivated and some new faces around the club with challenge the players and freshen them up.

It's done wonders for Wigan and Warrington and I think it's time we had complete overall on the coaching side.

Thoughts?

Knee jerk reaction to a few poor results, this is the same coaching set up that has got us to a load of grand finals, even though we haven't won them. It is the same coaching set up that beat Wigan twice in the play offs last year, and was unlucky that injuries to players at crucial times in the Grand Final robbed us of a real chance of winning. Fortunately, Saints arent a sacking club, we value stability, and that has served us well for many years. Simmons is on contract till the end of the year, and unless our form really nose dives, then I can't see Saints sacking him.

It's not knee jerk, I've been saying it for years. We've got a decent squad of players and playing some poor rugby.

I just think we need fresh ideas, fresh approach to things. It's been same old move every year.


I just think a new coach with his staff could freshen things up.

I think your right , if Simmons goes kp has to go with him. I wonder if we should look to get scully involved in a new setup.

My thinking is a new way if thinking and new ideas. Sometimes the same old faces makes the place stale.

Why do people keep talking about last season? Our team was a lot better last season as we had Graham. If we had him this season we would not have lost to Catalans or Hull IMO.

You mention he's safe unless our form nose dives? How bad does it need to get before you would accept sacking him? If we lose to Bradford to make it 5 games without a win, would that be enough? Would losing our next four games and being third bottom after a third of the season be enough?

A clearout is exactly what we need. The OP is bang on. Ever since Daniel Anderson left Saints we have looked slow and lethargic and poorly organised.

Whilst we're changing staff, we should also be changing Wello, Gardner, Meli, Shenton, Perry, Hohaia, LMS, Clough and Flannery.

Changing the coaching staff is one thing but no way can we turn that amount of players over and replace them. I agree with all them names with the exception of shenton who was showing good form at the back end of last season.

I can't stress just how far back Simmons has set this club back in terms of he recruitment. We can't just pay these players up as we are broke.

Our quota spots are now full for the next 2 years and unless the is quality off contract then we ain't got the cash to sign under contract players.

I think you've made your point. Repeatedly.

And whilst I don't disagree he isn't, and never was, a good appointment the simple fact is that destabilising a team/Club so early in the season achieves nothing and it won't happen. The Chairman we have is a man with perspective and is not going to risk everything on the back of 3 bad results because when you stop and think that's all it is - 3 results. If you look at other successful sports enterprises then there's a common denominator - stability and working through the bad times. This is not Italian football and God forbid it ever comes close but the hysterical reaction from our 'fans' is embarrassing and laughable.

McManus will not bow to supporter hysteria or discontent after such a short time, if indeed at all - look at the Millward episode to demonstrate that he is very single minded and will do the right thing when the time is right. To suggest that a coach should be judged on 3 games is utterly ludicrous. I know what we are serving up is turgid to watch and I know what we lack on the field but a lot of people need to get some perspective off it.

You'll have to deal with it - unless things go catastrophically wrong then Simmons is here for the season and maybe even beyond. One reason is the above and the second is that there is nobody to replace him with. Likewise with the maligned overseas players.

McManus may have been given the freedom of the town but his choices of coach have been disastrous

Do you think the chairman should act if the players think he's poor?

Depends on how many players. One or two players are never going to see eye to eye with every coach. It would take a bulk of player around 10 to make a move on a coach. Any less than that could just be down to factions and infighting.

A big thing there is that regardless of what a player thinks of the coach, come Friday night what ever they think of the coach they are there to play for the club and the fans.

Sia and TP may hate the coach, they , may love the coach, but they still put the effort and the energy in.

How much time did the players waste last night wandering to scrums when we where 6 points up.

When Tickle started taking his kicks, that time would have been precious to us, to try and close the gap.

I don,t think we need to press the panic button just yet, we,ve got 21 more games to get the wheels back on the Wagon. My gut feeling is that KP and RS might not be on the same wavelength as they don,t know which is the best team and they don,t seem to have any game plan whatsoever especially in defence.
As everyone as highlighted full back and scrum half needs fixing sooner than later, if Royce won,t drop Wellens then try him out at loose forward to communicate the team from the middle of the park. We,ve got to free up Lomax from the pressures of trying to boss the team around he,s got to be full back. That leaves Gaskell and Wheeler in the halves.
Would like to see Daniel Anderson back next season with Sean Long as his assistant.
This season might be a holiday one from any cup final appearance but I,m sure our demise is only short term.

The Chairman will only act if [uhe[/u thinks he's poor or that there's a number of performances or trend that affect the commercial viability of the business. Not based on emotional or knee jerk reactions. Player power is a disease - look at Chelsea and I very much doubt he wouldn't take other factors into consideration.

I know one of the players very very well and trust him as a discerningly honest individual and I've been told things I would never repeat to anyone. If the players think he is poor then that's not something I have ever been told - as I suspect that's what you are inferring.

What is Daniel Anderson upto? Simmons did great getting you to another GF. Working with the worst Saints side for 16+ years. Need to let him mould a new side.

Fans will always move before anyone else.

Fans will sign players up to 4 year contracts off the back of 4 games, they will sack players off the back of one game and will hale coaches and deride them withiin the space of a sentence.

Fans have no need to account for anything other than their own emotions, but I doubt we will sack a coach mid-season based on reults alone, unless those results start to infere an irreversable set of fortunes.

I know saddened has asked how bad does it have to get as we have not won in 4 games. That's the lack of perspective a fan has. 4 games without a win = end of the world. For those running a club, you have to allow for periods without a win. It's not about the run of form, but the distance from an end of season unacceptable result.

So I would imagine for the board a sacking would be an inability to make the top 8, this would take to about 2/3rds of the season to find out. Hence in a final year Royce ain't going to get sacked. There is a difference between an unacceptable result and a sacking result. I imagine the board would find falling outside the top 4 unacceptable, I think in terms of getting a new contract. Royce would need top 4 and a trophy of some description.

So you can look at it in many different ways, but to sack Royce would require more than just unacceptable form over a short period of time.

A good example is the first 6 games in 2007, we had 3 losses out of 6. But DA was not sacked, he was given time to change it around and we finished top 2, with the CC.

now now girls, your all getting urselves in a kufluffle, calm down calm down, 4/4 wow i didnt expect that.

Excellent post and as I posted above, I completely agree.

This may be a crude analogy given that it's a different sport but as we speak Spurs are losing 1 - 0 at Everton. If they get beat they will have lost 3 games on the trot and they have been dire so far. Will they sack Harry Redknapp?

Saints should never become a sacking Club. If we do we'll never even stand a chance of attracting a top coach.

I'm also very good friends with people at the club and my best mate is at the club and my opinion is he's not the greatest coach. (that's my opinion and not anyone I know at saints)

It may only be four disastrous performances but Potter wasn't given that long before the "your fired" finger was twitching under the desk.

I think I speak for most Saints fans, we aren't like the Wigoon fans of the 80's & 90's who almost expected success, we have tasted the bridesmaid tag enough to know that you savour every cup you win, and we have done that many times since 1996. BUT for saints fans it's more than that, we expect the team to play in a manner that is both successful and entertaining. If we lose in a GF to a better team, and play well, you'll get no complaint from me, but it seems like the team have descended into mediocre and that is bad for business in the long term. For Eamon, it's about ensuring those season ticjet holders turn up with their cash to renew next season to keep the club on a sound footing.

Even in this very harsh financial climate, with job losses and increased living costs, the fans have kept their end of the bargain, turning up and paying their money to show their support for what Eamon has done. Two of the three jigsaw pieces are in place but the club is going to need the team producing the goods to keep the fans paying their money.

It's not just about winning, it's the manner of the performances that are the most concerning. Last night, Lance got caught with no runners on three or four occasions. You had both half backs taking the line on from first receiver with no option runners whatsoever. You had Gaskell hitting lead runners on the last tackle (Dixon caught with the ball), plus Wheeler ran it himself on the last too and got caught.

The issue for Saints is that they have based their style of play around a quick PTB and short passes around the ruck. As soon as a referee allows a team to slow Saints PTB by just 1 or 2 seconds (as Hull did last night), then we don't seem to have a plan B.

We don't seem to be capable of attacking with any flair for the most part. All tries are tries but the majority of ours, against the better defensive teams, are from within 20m of the opposition line. We haven't got a Darren Albert who can score from 90m out. When Meli put JF through a hole on the 40, he panicked and put in a pointless kick that was made far too early (McKinnon had it well covered) which indicates to me a massive confidence issue. Im pretty sure it was third tackle too so could have tried to beat the full back and work off the back if the break/field position.

I've already mentioned Wellos lack of a pass with the 3 on 1 in the corner and his compounded error in dropping Perrys offload, which ended up costing us 6 points and gifting a further 6 to Hull.

Now I'm sure the players don't do these things on purpose but it does seem to indicate a little more than just a minor dip in form.

And I don't disagree with your assessment of him one bit - I have held that view since the day we appointed him knowing the reputation (or lack thereof) he has as a coach in Australia. However, sacking him now would cause more problems than it solves unless there's an absolute top class coach with a pedigree available. As far as I am aware there isn't. I don't think Eamonn will get caught up in the fans hysteria because we have lost 3 games.

Anyway, onwards and upwards. Am looking forward to next week.

Sack him and hire Sean Long with Daniel Anderson as 'Director of Rugby with a free pass to visit Australia whenever he chooses'.

If I was a chairman I'd obviously look at what's available now or at the end of the season.

I'd love DA to take charge, even if it was only to the end of the season. We need some to get the squad organised.

Never mind long coaching, get him playing!

I've learned from Phil Clarke, that bastion of statistics, that in fact most tries per se are scored from within the 20m opposition line.

However, I do agree with what you said in the rest of your post. The team is making way too many errors, some of quite an alarming type, for the problem simply to be a form thing. We have relied upon James Roby too much which is understandable to a degree with two young halves last year but this year that needs to change in case we find ourselves without him at the business end and fighting for a spot in the eight.

People always tell me about these cycles in sport, the ones in which a team that is used to winning everything suddenly fall down the ladder and look back on their past greatness, Bradford won the league in 2005.