I thought we did okay tonight. All this talk of people being 'pwned', us being 'raped like an under 7s side in the Bronx' and every second player taking the mick out of the club is way off.

I drove to the game and it certainly didn't feel like a proper match. The game on and off the field had the atmosphere and intensity of a friendly between Barrow and Bramley. Very quiet off the field and as a game it was completely lacking. No intensity at all, no real quality on show and were it not Saints v Wire and their fans getting excited about finally beating us it would have been one of the most drab, boring games I've seen as a Saints fan. A typical early doors defeat at home. We get them most seasons, but normally they are to Quins or Wakefield or Hull and not Warrington.

Credit to the Wire, superb defensively in the first half, although we didn't try much to make it hard for them. They took their opportunities but I don't think Tony Smith will be too excited about their performance, they will play a lot better than they did tonight this season and lose. First half we had so much territory we should have been at least level. The worrying thing in the post-Cunningham era is that we didn't even threaten their line. It was all one out rugby, one pass and a drive and someone held on their back over the line very often. No clever kicks, no dummy runners, no planned moves, no offloads. All very predictable and monotonous.

Bar Gaskell I don't think there was anyone we could single out as having a bad game. Even Eastmond, flavour of the month in the scapegoat stakes didn't do anything wrong, we just didn't involve him, the ball went to Gaskell all too often and the only ball he didn't drop tonight was the one on the floor he dropped on to score. I thought the pack played well, we had enough territory to win the game. I thought Wilkin, Roby and LMS did a good job in particular, the usual suspects. Wello was his usual self, a week late to every ball and about as threatening with the ball in hand as an angry hamster to a 747.

Strange game in all. Wire deserved their win, but I wonder if any of their fans feel it was a tad anti-climactic? Boring game, no real quality, no good moves from either side, no excitement? We'll be okay this season, the squad depth isn't sufficient for us to win any trophies unless we get a ridiculously favourable Cup draw, but if we can get Leon back out there to lead them a comfortable play off spot and a season of rebuilding with a respectible finish is what we should be aiming for. We have no 'greats' in the side now like we used to have so it's back to normality after so many years around the trophies and finals I feel. Hopefully with the new stadium in place the signings from now on can be ambitious and they can replace Jammer and Kyle with players good enough to build a squad around.

You make some good points but the only reason Gaskell got the ball so much was because Kyle was stood 5 yards behind play trying his best not to get injured.

As for Gaskell he did make some booboo's but he worked his socks off in attack and defence and he showed promising moments.

Agree with you on the friendly type feeling - Widnes just doesnt feel 'right'

That is harsh I feel, we simply don't know what Kyle is being told to do. If he were doing what you say, would the likes of Jammer, Wello etc let him do that? Would Royce even play him? If he's made his mind up, and I don't believe for one second that the club don't know his decision, he shouldn't be playing at all IMO.

Royce said before the Wigan that they'd spent the entire off season training with Gaskell and Leon at 6 and 7. Then Leon goes and gets injured and Kyle is thrown in, presumably with very little preparation. It's not Kyle's fault there were no runners, no dummy runners and no one bolting through for a kick. There was no movement at all going forward, they just approach the line in a line and went one out so often.

Part of a scrum halves job is to bark out the orders to set up the plays.
If the scrum half is just saying you have it, then there is not much the other players can do.
Scrum halves also need to attack the line, as that causes defensive indecision. Kyle never did that at all. Whether its mental of physical he is not currently at the races.

As for Gaskell I thought he had an half decent first half, but tired bit and then dropped a pas or two in the pouring rain.

To be honest I never thought that Warrington was worth the 24-0 score. There pack did give ours a beating but we had enough time and the Warrington line to convert in to points.

I think our defence needs to go up a gear but it's our attack that worries me. Against Wigan we looked like we had no idea and tonight was even worse. The Main problem is playing two young inexperienced lads at halfbacks.

Our kicking game is terrible.

Not many positives but I don't think we are to far off.

I'm not being critical of Gaskell, he looks a prospect, but it's too early in his development to have him paired with another relatively inexperienced player in Kyle. If Leon isn't there to play with Gaskell I think they would be better going with Wilkin against the big teams. It could do a lot of harm to Gaskell's confidence if they leave him to suffer like that all season.

That is wrong. If their pack had given us this mythical beating we wouldn't have spent much of the first half camped in their 20m area. I was sat on the Wire 20m mark in the first half and spent almost all that half looking left towards the Saints fans, which shows how much we were down there.

Wire did well in the spell just after half time but I'd hardly say they dominated our pack given that they scored off just about every possession they had in our 10m area and only ended up with 25 points.

I said the same thing during the week and got shot down by few on here. Tonight wilkin should have played stand off!!!!

Nothing against gaskel but Kyle needs someone to take the pressure off him and wilkin is best we've got at the moment.

God knows why eastmond has changed his game, he no longer takes the line on. Maybe Royce tells him not to or his heads all over the place but unless he takes the line on like he used to then he'll be nothing but a average scrumhalf.

The spell before halftime when we was camped on the Warrington line was due to penalties and repeat sets from drop outs.

To be fair to Warrington, there pack was on top most of the game and they really give it to us in the tackle.

Now this is a little confusing, in the past as you know we have also had enough time on the saints line to convert that territory into points but we have failed on numerous occasions.

Now the media and your own fans put the above down to great Saints try line defence, so basically when the opposition does the same to you they are not worthy, its all down to Saints short comings in front of the try line and nothing to do with how good the opposition have improved in a game against Saints at defending their own line.

Your defense was fantastic. No one with a brain would dispute that. We didn't put it under any real pressure though, so at least part of the blame for the 0 for Saints at HT goes to the attackers.

This in a nutshell,over 60 minutes before he took the line on just isnt right.
I can excuse players not playing well it happens to even the best,what i cant excuse is not giving 100%

Are You stupid? Where have I said it was just our attack being poor?

The Warrington defence was awesome but with the amount of ball we had on your line we'd be expected to score.

We won tonights game down the middle.... nothing eastmond could have done about it. Our forwards dominated and our defence smothered a predictable attack. The short ball to pauleta didnt work (i would have him at wire in a heartbeat though) and you seemed to struggle for ideas after that.

your scapegoating of eastmond is a bit poor to be honest.... he wasnt that bad.

Your main problem was that graham got owned early.... he then spat his dummy out and spent the rest of the game being second best in the tackle.... the rest of your forwards seemed to follow suit.... i thought soliola would be one of your biggest threats and he was non existent.... graham was smashed by monaghan and Carvell and your pack seemed to give up.

LMS worked hard... but he was a little young for the intensity... he will be a great signing though.

You need pryce back quickly..... in all honesty it looks like you need a new 6 & 7 long term.... and a 13

If you dominated us so much down the middle, how come we had so much territory in the first half? Where did all the metres come from as I don't remember Warrington making many mistakes and I don't remember us getting loads of penalties either?

Spot on fella!!!

you got lots of sets from good attacking plays and mistakes at the wrong times.... we then shut up shop and you got nothing.

We made loads of yards with the ball... your forwards never looked like breaking us when it mattered.

Yes for several reasons

1. It wasn't at home and it wasn't at KR.
2. The Saints side didn't have Long and Cunningham in it.
3. After winning two Challenge Cups the excitement of winning a one off league game has diminished. When we were garbage then a win against a good side was as good as we got so when other clubs fans would say "pfft they think it's their Cup Final", but if you never get in big games, that sort of thing is the cup final, its like is someone like Fulham beats Man U their fans go crazy.
4. All through the game I never felt we would lose, which took away some of the edge of the usual Wire v Saints games.

If we'd have beaten Saints a few years ago in a tight game it would have been more exciting way of ending the losing streak.

As for now I feel like I did as a cricket fan when England finally won a series against the West Indies in 2000. If we'd won in 1993/94 or 1995, it would have been great, but it had that anti-climactic feel of something well overdue that had an inevitability about finally happening.

A very honest appraisal.

Thought the whole game was totally surreal. Sans Knowsley Road it was like a weird "who-cares?" attitude had permeated through the crowd. Everywhere I looked there seemed to be people shrugging their shoulders or scratching their heads in absolute perplexity. The team itself was like a thinly visible spectre of former days. The jerseys were there but the flesh, bone and - most importantly - heart were off inhabiting some other dimension.

Set against the backdrop of decades of Saints memories - some glorious, others less-so - it wasn't a terrible performance. We made a few silly mistakes and Warrington, to their credit, played well. Despite the addition of Shenton and the welcome emergence of Gaskell the balance of the side still doesn't look right. Clearly the unedifying saga that is Kyle Eastmond's contract negotiations MUST be resolved before the next match because I think it's plain to see it's having an effect on not just Eastmond' performances but the team's. At the end of the day, the scrum half is the focal point of any side and players need to have total faith in their key playmaker. I didn't see much faith tonight and this was reflected in the display. If Saints don't force Kyle's hand soon I think the potential exists for years of team harmony - which has been just as instrumental to our success as any player - to be put in dire jeopardy. And that simply cannot be allowed to happen.

But more disturbing was the lack of any emotional connection for me. Completely irrespective of the performance - they just didn't seem like my team. Perhaps it's just the ground. I'm not sure. But the disquieting worry is that it isn't...

I agree with that. But it is probably because we were lost. Before the match started, people were wandering around outside wondering how to get to their seats and they were having to be directed. There is no pop side. We can't hear the almighty roar of the fans egging on the team. It's going to take a long time for Saints fans to adjust. Knowsley Road was a very special place in lots of ways. HOwever, no-one around me in the East Stand was 'shrugging their shoulders or scratching their heads'. The East Stand was noisy and actively involved all the way through. But the impact was not as it was when there was the pop side.

As for the team, well it is a different team. We no longer have stars in it. There are a lot of young players in there who have hardly been around five minutes and a lot of well known faces have gone. We totally lack creativity or any player who can think independently. I got the impression tonight that at least half the team were waiting for instructions from the coach about what to do next. But hopefully that will change as the team gels and we learn how to attack without Keiron to barge his way over the line. Or it could be that we are heading into a period of mediocrity. Who knows? Time will tell. I do agree though that the halfback situation needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency.

you must have big hands saddo all those straws you are clutching at

It is always going to be a difficult transition, playing in Widnes is like an away game for the players at present, a lot of people are going to select matches, mid week we were being told virtually sold out and and an attendance not a full house far from it.

Other clubs have suffered for a lot longer period than St Helens will and supporters have stayed loyal!

Yes, I'd like to see Carvell's left hook from a different angle, it certainly took Jammer a while to get up from that one. Does a forearm to the head count as being owned or a cheap shot?

If we show any signs of going through a Bradford or Wigan style transition period there would be rioting and scenes on par with those in Libya and Egypt recently. Our fans are not the type to sit back and accept mediocrity. My 'sack the board' placard might need to come out of the garage if they don't sort things out sharpish.