How many times have Saints played (and beat) Wigan at Cardiff, and what were the years? Think its 3 but not sure. Thanks in advance.

Millenium Magic 5th May 2007
St Helens 34-18 Wigan Warriors

Millenium Magic 4th May 2008
St Helens 57-16 Wigan Warriors

2004 Challenge Cup Final
St Helens 32-16 Wigan Warriors

Yup, 3 times we've played there against you and 3 times we've lost. I reckon that's up for a change on the next Millenium Magic

No doubt it will be. Beat us with a full strength side (Or close to) and I'll respect it. Beating a team with five or six missing is something any team in SL could do (Bar possibly Warrington teams from 1996 onwards).

Agreed, I cant wait for the game. I really really hope we beat them and wonder if they will still think of themselves as invincible. I honestly think will a full strength squad we will beat them.

We already have Richards and I think you guys have Perry for a starters out of the game.

Millenium Stadium is our ground and Murrayfield is their ground.

Oh God, you're not still carping on about that are you?

Take the Grand Final - You weren't the only side with injuries, and the last time I looked, Matty Smith was a specialist scrum half, who controlled the previous playoff game for you. Jon Wilkin has also played stand off for you on many occasions with great success.

We were the only side with both our halfbacks missing through injury, though, and that was supremely evident. Matty Smith was fab during the Warrington play off but didn't make any impact during the Hudds playoff. Aside from any questions over his ability, he didn't have enough experience to be in a position to take control of the game as a scrum half needed to do in the Grand Final. Both or either of Pryce and Eastmond would have had no such problems. We suffered greatly for the lack of halfbacks. Wilkin is no halfback and has only excelled there once: against Leeds in 2008. He's been rubbish each subsequent time. That isn't his fault: he isn't a halfback.

You still wouldn't have won if Pryce and Eastmond were playing. Wigan didn't fire in attack, apart from Gleeson's second try. Our first and third tries came about because some of your players forgot how to tackle. Our defence was fairly solid though.

As for Wigan, it could be said that we had no halfbacks either. As we all know, Tommy's international position - and best position - is hooker, and Deacon is supposedly knackered and past it - either way, he's a scrum half, not a stand off, which is where he was on GF day. Our stand off was covering at fullback for the injured Cameron Phelps.

Come to think of it, Pat went off in the first half, and Darrell Goulding - normally a centre - was also covering injury, for Amos Roberts.

But of course, only you had injuries.

Losing a winger is no curse for any team. Losing both your halfbacks is.

Had Pryce and Eastmond played Saints would have won easily. Next season may be different as you are stronger and we're still merrily skipping down the mysterious squad development route.

Quote of the decade.

Why? It's an opinion. Saints weren't all that far off winning with a totally disjointed lineup with no cohesion at all. Had Pryce and Eastmond been playing it would have been a totally different game.

Do you think Wigan are invincible all of a sudden? One good season in about 10 and you are now so unimaginably brilliant that Saints couldn't possibly beat you?

I don't think they're invincible. It's just that last season, they were consistently better than St Helens and the other 12 teams in Super League. I'm not making predictions for this season.

Except we beat you during the rounds so we were fully capable of beating you at the Grand Final. The big and noticeable difference between 20 June and the Grand Final was on 20 June we had Leon Pryce playing. Had both Pryce and Eastmond been playing our chances against you were 50:50, just as they had been throughout the season. I wouldn't say we would have won easily, but you wouldn't have been able to choose between us if we'd had our halfbacks playing. They were our creative players and our kickers and we needed both with your defences being so good and so determined to keep us out of your 10, which is where we had scored most of our tries during the season.

You were damned fortunate we were disabled. But that's the nature of sport. 2011 is a brand new season.

Pryce and Eastmond played in the last Good Friday game at KR and Saints lost that one too.
What amazed me about the GF was why Roby did not play 80 mins.
Lomax had been injured for a number of weeks and started, Roby who is a tremendous player only came on after 20 mins when Wigan were 16-0 in front.
Roby's absence was far more influential in Saints poor start to the GF rather than Pryce and Eastmond.

Thankfully we won't have that problem this year.

Some of my Wire mates think Roby is an over-rated player who can't pass, kick or direct a game.

and we didnt have Lockers playing in June but we did in the GF... pointless argument, none of us know what would have happend had those two not been injured in the GF, to suggest Saints would win easily is laughable but then again looking at who made that comment it really doesnt matter. I dont believe we were fortunate that you were 'disabled', as I know we are more than good enough to beat a full strength Saints team.

The half back injury thing wasnt recent and shows the need to increase depth there (or was there someone else injured who could play there????), either way a team has to deal with injuries and that shows how good a team really is. Wigans depth this season is their biggest strength imo.

The Saints I know and hate dont make excuses up and go on about it months laters, at the end of the day Wigan could only beat what was put in front of them and they did.

Individual absences had nothing to do with the Grand Final loss. We were beaten by a better organised and more enthusiastic side, and frankly the score flattered us.

It will/would be nice to have half-backs again, though.

I don't know how anyone can argue that having your two international half backs out injured does not have an impact on ANY result, let alone a GF.

Ordinarily I'd agree, and I'm sure it would have been helpful to have had them in the side, if only for Kyle's kicking game, but we were so inferior in the pack in the GF that Pryce and Eastmond would have been up against a brick wall anyway (and no doubt loads of folk on here would be banging on about them going missing in big matches).

Finally, something sensible.

Well, I don't think I made that comment. I said we would have had a 50:50 chance. Without our halfbacks we were highly unlikely to win given Wigan's strong defence (which was determined to keep out our attempts to barge the line, pretty much our only way of scoring tries for the last third of the season), fit squad, overall ability and tactically astute coach (such a contrast to ours). It was frustrating for Saints fans because we'd done so well to get there without our halfbacks and with so many injuries (35 separate incidents over the season, some season-long).

I'm not 'making excuses' for anyone; that's just childish. I'm stating a fact. Without Deacon and Leului (never can spell his name) you wouldn't have been as effective at the Grand Final. No RL fan with even half a brain would deny that.

a quick question-

are you sending a team to play york this weekend? their official site is down and looking for some details?

not sure about kick.
and he does seem like the quiet type. (looking back over my shoulder!

)

but he is far from overrated. underrated if anything