At eight oclock tonight an awful lot of you thought we were almost unbeatable and that battering Salford was a given. Many of you even suggested fielding an almost all-academy lineup, such was the ease of the task in hand. Our full strength side struggles there a lot, so one featuring a few kids is guaranteed to. Oh how I smiled when Salford ran in the tries tonight against such a feable showing, seeing the shocked and stunned faces.

Which bring me onto the ridiculous fawning over the 'kids' in our squad, if you can call it a squad. When you put one young player amongst 16 senior players they can be made to look good by those around them and the confidence it provides. If you put a lot of those kids in together its an almost guaranteed defeat, as tonight proved.

Don't get me wrong about the current crop of kids, I'm sure one or two (Literally) will make it in SL but the majority will disappear into anonymity very quickly. They are not the second coming and they are not anywhere near sufficient to cope with the losses of senior players over recent seasons. Saints recruitment policies are championed on here as you fawn embarassingly over da kids, but it's probably going to cost us dearly yet again this season. The senior players are stale and the kids aren't up to SL when used in anything other than near isolation with the senior players.

With Longy AND KC out next week we ARE going to lose to Warrington. Oh what a shock for you who saw us as being untouchable and on our way to the double. Truth is our squad is so lightweight any injuries hit us hard and we'd better pray those two are back in action for the semi final or it's goodbye to our run in the cup.

I wonder how many would bet on us winning a trophy this season now? I bet the odds have tumbled somewhat.

Do we all still agree that not signing anyone is such a good idea?

Which is what I've been saying for quite some time, and have been accused by many of being just a Wigan troll.

What I've always said is that kids will give you enthusiasm, but too many in the team can cause problems.

Just focussing on this point as I can't be d starting yet another debate about the kids at this moment in time.

I think you need to re read the threads posted here prior to the game tonight. You will see that very few people claimed we were unbeatable or that we would beat never mind batter Salford. A quick look on the 19 man squad thread should demonstrate this with only Paul Bate (a noob) and Saint Simon even remotely suggesting that we wouldn't struggle against Salford.

Whilst it was a pretty big assumption by some that we'd win i'd suggest this is as much down to confidence than sheer arrogance, even if that confidence was misguided or simply bravado in the face of us losing key players.

Those that did suggest we would win could even argue that their OPINION was based primarily on the relative league positions of the two teams and as such it can be suggested that their opinions were not arrogance but based on the higher probability of us winning than losing as the top of the league side who has just won 16 away games on the bounce.

My point is that you generalise considerably in your point, and as is all too easy to do on here - saw only what you wanted to when reading threads - remembering only the few that displayed confidence in their side to do the business, and ignoring those who suggested we might not find it easy. This is exactly what some supporters of our rivals do and run with it considering all Saints fans to be cocky and arrogant.

Your posts clearly mark you as a 'glass half empty' poster and though there's nothing wrong with that, not everyone takes the same dark outlook/attitude.

I for one still have faith in the team to bring some silverwear home and if I had any money to, I would gladly put some down that it happens.

As nice as it is to see the trophy cabinet full every season I recognize that the people in charge at Saints have a long term plan and though putting faith into the kids at this stage is a risk, it is a calculated one that we are in a lucky enough position to do now compared to other teams and more importantly one that we consider necessary for us to be able to remain competitive as the rules regarding players/franchising change over the next few years.

Me?



Any, before anyone mentions the word 'knee jerk' my post was meant to mock the general air of total-over-confidence, and I fully understand that I have used sweeping generalisations, as they are more fun




We're still clearly one of the top sides, but our squad is so small that it makes it horrendously difficult to win both trophies and runs the risk of us not winning any. The policy of three or four senior players leaving and being replaced with 1 incoming senior player is questionable. No harm in promoting youth of course, but I feel we've totally over-egged it and that we may well suffer from it rather than thrive as most feel we will.

A "general air of overconfidence"?

Don't be projecting your pre-jo-dices onto others. As has been pointed out - very few people seem overconfident. Two seasons of league titles and no SL trophy kind of gets you that way.

I agree with most that saddened says at the top of the page apart from IMO we can still do the double and let's not cut our wrists because we lost to Salford. Don't forget they won at Leeds and hull.

What I do agree is that 1 or maybe 2 young lads playing in a good saints team makes it a lot easier than when we field 4 or 5. I can't beleive how carried away certain people are getting with these kids. It's unreal!!!

Fair enough they have held there own and not looked out of place but for some to suggest we could field them all and still be best team they are living in dreamland.

Don't get me wrong I'd love all them to make up are team for next 10 years but IMO we will be lucky to have 3 still playing for saints in 2 years time.

Oh well, we might as well not turn up then. Who wants my ticket for £17?

Are you sure you're a Saint fan?

Regardless of other fans attitudes to our club, I can never take pleasure in us losing and it's a very odd kind of "fan" that can.

Wigan did that in the year they signed Danny Orr, got rid of 6 senior players through retirement or transfer. I had a rant at the fans forum that year and it fell on deaf ears.

If you want to look at Wigans deep rooted problems, then that is a good starting point.

Of course, I wont be complaining if it happens to you men

quite right, are we sure saddened is a saints fan?

Yeah I am. I was there again last night bemoaning our cheap ass recruitment policies.

What gets me is you didn't have about 4 first team players your using that excuse. We didn't have about 7 first team players

what gets me most is your wrong and nobody cares what you think anyways.

How am i wrong? And some of your fans that are blaming it because you didn't have all your best players out obviously do care

Gidley, Pryce, Cunningham, Cayless, Wilkin

Fitzpatrick, Talau, White, Myler, Sibbit, Parker

Can add Turner & Myler to the Salford list as well, making it even more impressive that they turned Saints over.

But obviously stopping Staints 16 away game unbeaten run without 7 of our players isn't good enough to please them and get them to give us any credit at all.

Tony, why do you have a problem with me being "a noob", seems to be that you are suggesting that a noob to your forum knows nothing about R.L. (after last night you might be right

) if im wrong then i aplogise, i might be new to your forum, but ive been watching saints for 28 years, home and away, and missed fewer than most, i think i was quite within my rights to think we would win quite easily last night, even with the side we had out, if most people were truly honest they would of thought the same. Rant over....sorry.

Indeed, well done to salford. Ripped us to bits in the first 15 mins or so and we couldn't get back into it. Alot of people are starting to rate ratchford as high if not higher than Myler, what the veiws of the Salford fans?

Myler is on that list already?



Again, you are referring to a minority, a larger number on other threads have given you some credit.

First match I've missed since Ive been going and im in my 5th season.And if you ask me Ratchford is better than Myler when hes played in the right position. And thanks for the credit of our win i like most of your post to be honest

Sorry Paul, it wasn't a personal attack and I don't have a problem with you being a noob nor do I consider your newness to posting here as an indication of your overall rugby league knowledge. I referred to you as a noob to indicate that we don't know you yet as a poster and as such don't know your stance on such topics in this case whether you were displaying confidence or arrogance.



Indeed you are well within your rights to have an opinion and to think we'd win. I express as much further in my original post.

Thanks Tony for clearing up what you meant, again i apologise for ranting.

I think in terms of a "rugby brain" Ratchford is the better player - he also offers more in the kicking department. Myler however adds that element of unpredictability and is the more likely to make a game changing play. Great to have them both in the team, just a shame one of them looks to be on his way...I'm excited about Ratchford's future at the club though.

The only thing with Ratchford is that, to quite some of our fans he seems to be above any criticism, mainly because some people have been so intent on having him playing at stand off instead of Jeremy Smith (aka scapegoat) all season. Not saying that I have any particular criticisms of him but some might start to have unrealistic expectations of him.

However both Ratchford, and especially Myler, are poor defenders. Wigan targeted them both in the cup game.