[url=http://saints.rlfans.com/Article up now[/url

Cause he's average?

He's still got a shout of the mid season test and may yet get added to the Elite squad so i wouldn't write his chances of just yet.

He's having a fine season and is a player i'd have around the squad for the Quad Nations and in the 17 for the mid season test without doubt.

He's a very strong player for the size of him.

great article that

Good article.

Must admit I was shocked that both clough and pryce missed out.

great article

Cloughy is very underrated, which may be a bad thing for him, but for us at saints, it's a good thing as he will continue the good work.

Good work Ski, great article again.

Glad to see its working again.

Its not the final squad!!!

Problem is, I think both Hock and O Loughlin are ahead of him at the moment for England places but in time, he will be twice the player O Loughlin is and on a par with Hock

O'Loughlins a better player then Hock.

Besides the both of them though(Hock didn't make the squad either by the way) i'd have had Clough in ahead of Westwood.

Westwoods a decent superleague player but international class long term? I wouldn't think so.

Clough on the other hand will get better and better and is ahead of Westowod even now in talent terms.

wasting your breath mate

Thats why i didn't get the timing of it or why he named 17.

It's just confused everyone.

Exactly, would have made more sense to have named 16/20/25 well any number but 17 or 13 really.

20 would have seemed a nice round figure for now.

Smith does come across as a fidgeting weirdo though.

how true

Missing out on rep football this time won't do Clough any harm. He's quietly developing into a fine player. His broad physique coupled with a low centre of gravity means he's a difficult guy to bring down. Adding a few extra pounds in the off-season has increased his go-forward significantly. He makes few mistakes, has a strong engine and weighs in with his fair share of tries. I still think his big season will be the next one, but he's doing more than fine this.

Never said it was!!!!!!!!!

O'Loughlin and Hock are different players. I've always thought Wigan use Pubehead wrong. He is better as a solid line runner and someone to really rely on in defence. He is an awkward ball player, and Wigan would be better suited with some one with a bit more flair at 13, allowing him to roam, tackle and make yards off his running.

Hock can be a devastating player. He is a great runner, and if he can be pulled in a bit, he can learn to utilise his offloads better. Cut out the brain farts and I would have him starting for England because he would punch holes in any defence. With players like Pryce, Burrow and Roby backing up for the offload, you have a winning combination.

Agree mate that they're totally different players. I just think overall O'Loughlin brings that little bit more value to a side. It is very hard to compare though.

Anyway back on track with Clough.

I would personally see Hock in there for his all round game rather than O'Loughlin.

Cloughy should be in there too, the guy has been brilliant this season.

When hock is at his best the ain't many better 2nd rows in the world but when he has a bad day the ain't many worse.

I don't think it will do clough any harm at all missing out. In fact it might make him try even harder.

If he keeps improving like he is at mo it won't be long before he's a England regular.

When Hock's on form he's a dangerous player alright, but let's not go overboard with praise. There are plenty of NRL second row forwards who are better than Hock. Let's be honest, he's never done anything against NZ or Australia.

O'Loughlin is better than Hock. He is more consistent and has a better rugby brain than Hock. Hock can be devastating on his day, but in the really big games, he often underachieves.