To say it was disapointing is putting very mildly. I thought the Warrington pack led by Adrian Morley were quite frankly magnificent. Ben Westwood without doubt should have been named Man Of The Match. Lee Briers kicked us too death and has us pinned on our own line.

People have been saying on other threads that we are missing a big prop who gains metres. We have on in our squad who hasnt played in the front row for a good while (Tony Puletua). Anthony Laffranchi holds his own against the average sides in Super League but put him up against the big physical packs like Wigan, Warrington and Catalan and he struggles as he isnt a front rower by trade. I personally have nothing against Laffranchi but surely its now the time Mike Rush and Keiron Cunningham moved Puletua up to the front row with Perry in the starting line up. I cant for the life of me understand why they havent at least thought of this allready. I am convinced with a starting front row of Perry, Roby, Puletua it would give us more grunt upfront and more metres made plus his offloading game.

However the problem at Stand Off is even worse. Lance Hohaia is never a Stand Off in the memory of man. He was utterly clueless last night. All he did was a little show and go and then got hammered by the Warrington defenders. Hohaia would be better served being dropped to the bench and Lee Gaskell being installed back at 6 where he had a very good season last year. As far as I am concerned unless we bring Gaskell back into the side we have zero chance of making the GF as Hohaia is a second rate Stand Off and our moves stop when he's got his hands on the ball.

My side until the end of the season (GF appearance or not)

Wellens
Makinson
Shenton
Jones
Meli
Gaskell
Lomax
Perry
Roby
Puletua
Wilkin
Flannery
Laffranchi

Bench

Hohaia
Soliola
Clough
McCarthy-Scarsbrook

Hohaia
Makinson
Shenton
Jones
Meli/Gardener
Gaskell
Lomax
Perry
Roby
Puletua
Wilkin
Soliola
Laffranchi

Bench

McCarthy-Scarsbrook
Dixon
Clough
Flash/Forster/Magennis

Lance need to move to 1 - I honestly don't see what Wello is offering us other than teaching the young lads how to wave your arms around and moan alot.

1. Wellens
2. Makinson
3. Shenton
4. Jones
5. Meli/Gardner
6. Gaskell
7. Lomax
8. Perry
9. Hohaia
10. Puletua
11. Soliola
12. Wilkin
13. Roby

LMS
Laffranchi
Clough
Flannery

Dropping Hohaia for Gaskell would be an improvement, but it's hardly a drastic change.

Anyone who has half a brain can see our 1,6,7 pivot is horrendous. Gaskell being brought back for his kicking game is an essential. Gaskell and Lomax worked last season, why could it not be given a chance this season? Drop Wellens, he's useless now, and put Makinson at fullback. If he continues to be terrible, which he is currently on the wing, put Hohaia there. There is an argument for putting Lance at fullback himself, his chase back and tackle on Myler was sensational. It was a race he won easily, Usain Bolt esque running whilst looking sidewards. Wello unfortunately got lapped, which is an achievement over 90 metres.

Got to be Lance at 1 - he's shown given time and space he can be dangerous in attack , sadly in our current team he gets neither of those things playing at 6 (unless we are smashing the opposition in the forwards then even I could play in the halves and look good)

I'd love for someone to please explain to me what Wello offers the team at the moment?

No point in drastic changes - we pinned our colours to the one-dimensional grind mast for the rest of the season when we let the players force Royce out just 2 months in. Nothing we can do now but just get the season out of the way as painlessly as possible and start again afresh for next year. At the end of the day we still only need to win 3 games to be "champions" and we have the basic quality upfront to allow anything to happen in those games on the day. Changes at this point would just lessen further the chances of those happenings. And it's never going to happen under Rush anyway so no point in depressing ourselves further discussing it.

The lack of structure we have in attack can be blamed on coaching, whether thats Royce or the guys we have now. Gaskell back in at 6 is essential, he is halfback and he can kick which gives him 2 advantages over Hohaia straight away. He also seem to work better with Lomax as proved last year. Lance is a very good player and has played most of his top flight Rugby at 1 so why no play him there instead of the dead wood we have ??? At the end of the day what harm could it do ?

No point in drastic changes??? I totally disagree with that! Out of five games we have played Wigan and Warrington we have won just once which proves our tactics and team selection is beyond questionable. We have 3 games now until we are at the DW on the 7th of September to try different combinations and change our tactics. We will never ever beat Warrington or Wigan with the tactics we are employing now or the personnel in certain positions. Change is needed and bloody quick.

You've bacically said everything I've been saying all year. I've been banging on and on that we made massive mistake in signing Laffranchi to play prop, he does a ok Job against the lesser teams but it becomes clear he's not a prop against the top sides. I'm not having a dig at him as he always put in the effort but he's not a top rate prop.

I've also banged on about lance, he's not a stand off and won't be for as long as he lives, hes a fullback and thats that!

I've also been going on and on about TP playing 2nd row, he gee to lazy outwide and we miss his big runs down the middle, he's big strong, makes big yards and also had great off load game. Why have we moved him?

Which was better:

Last season. Lomax - Gaskell - Pryce
This season. Lomax - Lance - Gaskell

Also was Lomax better last season or this season.

Pryce didn't really play for his last two years but I'd take a fit pryce over any of our halfbacks.

We are effectively asking two fullbacks to play in the halves at a top level which IMO is pure stupid.

It's a tough ask for lomax and lance and in a way I feel sorry for them because it's hard to change postion when the other half is also changing postion.

Lomax could be a good scrum half if he had a top class experinced stand off with him, someone like finch or briers. That would allow lomax to drift in and out the game instead of being asked to do to much.

I would say as a combination the half backs played better last year, i know Hohia is new to the club but sometimes i get the impression that they are trying to do to much as individuals rather than whats best for the team, even daft things like kicking to touch from a pentalty they both seem to go for the ball to kick it rather than Lomax going for the kick and Lance talking to the line saying what moves he wants when the the team is set.

Generally i just feel saints attacking plays are so slow and predictabe, might be being a bit harsh but the only decent move was Shentons try in the build up when Hohia gives it to Wellens?? i do believe he passed it to the wrong person, luckily enough hohia came on the run around and we finished the try well. Dont get me wrong it was a great try, but my point is we only crossed the line once in 70 mins and i feel it was more off the cuff rugby rather than a set play, and IMO our set plays are so basic and done so slowly if we come across a well orginized sliding defence we will hardly score any points. Also the amount of ball that goes to ground when we are attacking is slightly embrassing.

We are very very predictable and our set moves are shocking when you compare it to other teams. It's the same move all the time and we have no dummy runners or options.

Because lance and lomax ain't natural halfbacks it's to slow, lance maybe quick on his feet but he's very slow in the head when it comes to rugby. We seem to go across the pitch to much.

It was always going to be a problem this year from the min super Royce said he's playing lance at 6.

Very true. Overall Lance isnt a bad player, we are just using him wrong, if you told him we are doing play x y and z with his chiming in from fullback he would be great, if you tell him to set up and organize play x y and z thats when he struggles. When the ball gets to him he may aswell lie on the floor. he thinks about it too much when he is in possesion rather than making a decesion right away and that why i think the ball either ends up on the floor or passes it too a player who already is being lined up.

IMO stick him at FB drift in and out of the play dont give him to much responsibility plus as he shown chasing myler down he has abit of much needed pace.

Possibly because he is not fit enough to play prop down the middle.
Perhaps the coaching staff see him more as a strike weapon into the corners in the same mode Ali Lauitiiti and David Solomona (esp. when they started to lose their stamina).

Well, wello was poor against warry but so was just about eveyone else and he scored a very good (consolation) try.

Against, Hudds he was, if not the man of the match, very close to being so. He IMO, made some excellent match turning tackles in the second half of that game when Hudds broke through on three occasions with only him to beat.

I'd give him another year and its unfair to place all our problems on him.
He needs to pack in the pathetic man trying to fly impersonations though.

How about him getting humiliated and smashed to pieces against Wigan, Wire and Leeds in the last league game and in the playoffs ruining his confidence and maybe threatening his future development as a player? The worst thing you could do with Gaskell right now is bring him into the team cold for big games that we are likely to lose convincingly after most of the season sat on the sidelines. Sit him in the stands, protect him from the oncoming farago, let Hohaia take the flak instead and start again fresh next season where we'l have a full season to build him up, have a good look at him and get him ready for the big games to come if he's ultimately up to it. That's the way to do it.

I'd be more than happy to have front row of Perry and Puletua with Clough and LMS coming from the bench...Laffranchi can move to 13 and have Wilkin, Soliola, Flanagan and Flannery playing in the second-row:

Wellens
Makinson
Shenton
Jones
Meli
Lomax
Hohaia
Perry
Roby
Puletua
Flannery
Wilkin
Laffranchi

LMS
Clough
Flanagan
Soliola

He really does need to pack in the Icarus impressions. Really winding me up with that now.

His performance against Warrington is his norm now, that's how he plays. He can still come up with the odd good tackle, the odd high ball take and he'll get on the end of breaks through the middle. But he's got no life in him at all. He's playing like a 32 year old whose body is shot and seems to be really struggling. His body language needs to be sorted out if he's staying in the side, sulking your way through a match you are playing terribly in is no way for a captain to behave. It's unbelievable that we've given him another playing contract.

LOL - 'wellens offers us absolutely nothing'
how about ... half of our tries?

The squad is stagnant and is in need of refreshing. Sadly the cost of the stadium has put a stop to that.

We shouldn't have give TP a new contract if he can't last 20/30 min stint.

Alot of talk about playing TP in the front row - this may be going against the grain, do I dare to say it - he looks lethargic and it seems can't last longer than 15/20 mins playing out wide. His lack of ability in playing long minutes really seems to affect the stability of the side. Compare his performance to that of Trent Waterhouse, an equally big second rower who caused all manner of problems out wide for us Monday and played pretty much a full game, as did Westwood on the other side.

He's a massive unit but for me, doesn't run his weight and could be even more devastating if he weren't going from a standing start every time he gets the ball.

He's always been better for us up the middle, I think.
He's no spring chicken and, while you may think there's less work going forward at 2nd row than prop, there'll be a lot more work to move around the pitch and be in the right position to come from deep, even if its for a dummy run. Maybe that's what takes away from his game when he's plyed 2nd row.
As I said elsewhere, I'd rather see laffranchi used in the 2nd row and TP at prop.