The worst derby ever today? A true mistakeathon if there ever was one, no intensity, no spirit from either side. Wigan will be all pleased with themselves, but they've been terrible too. I'd be surprised if that wasn't their worst performance of the season, which says it all about us. That has to be one of the worst games I've ever seen. We were simply awful and Wigan must have made upwards of 20 basic, unforced errors. Gelling has an absolute mare on the wing.

As for us, it just further highlights how far we've dropped under the previous two coaches. We're now a mid table side, capable of the odd decent performance if all the ducks are aligned, but in general will not compete to any serious degreee. We're not in a false position in the league and poor Mr Brown has some serious work to do. It's like being given Susan Boyle's body and being asked for Rihanna. Where do you start?

As for today:

1 Wellens 1/10 - Do yourself and everyone else a favour and retire. Completely ruining his legacy now and a complete liability for the side. Millward picked up on it, he's a black hole for attacking moves and offers nothing in defense. Finch was laughing at his attempt and he's never in the right position when kicks are made or players waltz over untouched. He's robbed Makinson or Lomax of two years of valuable development time at fullback
2 Meli 7/10 - Looked dangerous and had a couple of good runs but had no ball.
3 Shenton 5/10 - Tried hard as always, but still no chance to run with it
4 Wheeler 3/10 - I'm not wrong on him, he's not worth a contract even when he is fit
5 Makinson 7/10 - A few brilliant runs negated by a few naive defensive mistakes
6 Hohaia 1/10 - Should be released. He was a major, major mistake which will hamper the club for as long as he stays for
7 Lomax 5/10 - Never gave up but cost us in the first half, dashing out of the line stupidly. Needs to be moved to 1 or be put along a proper organising hallback
8 Perry 3/10 - Offers nothing, another overseas player we need to look for a mutually agreeable exit ASAP
9 Roby 4/10 - Very quiet, given no platform, but was shocking when we were on their line
10 Laffranchi 4/10 - A backrower pretending to be a prop. Doesn't work hard enough and has no impact
11 Soliola 5/10 - Never got going, but at least tried to stand up to their pack
12 Wilkin 4/10 - Anonymous, but coming back he's always going to be
13 Flannery 5/10 - Anonymous, back to how he's been for 99% of his deal with Saints

14 Maggenis 6/10 - Half decent, dozing for the Finch break
15 LMS 5/10 - Not given enough time, had no impact
16 Clough 4/10 - Looked terrible this season, a forward who offers no aggression and little go forward
17 Flanagan 7/10 - Smashed Lauaki and tackled well.

This season is a mess and it's over for us already. We should use what remains of this year to look forward. If one of the players at the club now is Brown's pick for fullback, they should play there for the rest of the season. If Gaskell is in the plans, he should come back in.

deffo the worst Saints squad for many a year

well done W**** - it was just TOO easy for you...

In the main agree but eres my tek on today:-
Wellens
Wellens 2/10 He should have been gone last year.extra point for effort.
Meli 6/10 Showed vim n vigour almost 100%assured he wont be taken into touch but you always get the sense he's ready to produce a howler (nearly did today).
Shenton 3/10 Awful out of position, fluffs advantagous opportunities and reckless discipline twice today get rid.
Wheeler 2/10 Ineffectual .
Makinson 8/10 Sorry Tommy you had to play with this shower today.
hohoia 0.5/10 Give him a p/t job in Tesco .
Lomax 3/10 I think you gave quite favourable terms for Lomax,He was intrumental viz a viz his elected choice of play in our abysmal performance.
Perry / Lafranchi 2/10 point each,liabilties remind me of the wilderness years in the 80's when we signed the wonderful Ross Conlon and the mercurial Marc Bournville geeeeez we've sunk.Perry prop pretending to be a Gaelic footballer.Lafranchi a prop pretending hes good.
Soliola 5/10 not bad effort and spirit .
Wilkin 4/10 As good as it gets whethere hes just back or consolidated never gonna be 4 +.
Flannery 4/10 'polyfilla' plugs a gap but eventually cracks.
Magennis what, where, how, when?
LMS 7/10 IMPACT, actually competed with the pie pack, spirit.
Clough 3/10 Reached his nadir with Saints not much more gonna come out o clough very much part of the saints inner sanctum of mediocrity.
Flannagen 5/10 the hit on laueki worth 2 brucey bonus points.
All in all slightly different from your take but still 5hit and deppressing

Have to say although I agree Wellens is way past his best and should have retired last season, this post proves the hyperbole offered by people on this forum. To give him 1/10 and 2/10 shows the immaturity and personal vengeance being directed to one of the best servants of Saints golden generation. He has been in good form of late and probably in the better half of our players through the season - that's the reality.

Of course I understand the irritation, there have been lots of valid points made against him that I agree wholeheartedly with - very true that he could be holding back younger players plus Hohaia and therefore ultimately detrimental to the team. True also that his legacy recedes by the game. However for about 2-3 seasons there have been games I have watched when he has had an average or decent game, or even been among our best performers and yet I come here to find people distorting the events of a game and ridiculing the man. I have watched replays of televised game after said posts and have discovered blatant fabrications of events. We know your point by now and most of us generally agree, so please stop with this personal character assassination of Paul.

Good post! Totally agree!

Agreed.

I call a spade a spade. Wellens is no longer a positive contributor to the side. He destroys a lot of our attacking plays and does nothing defensively bar being generally sound under the high ball. He was absolutely awful today, stumbling onto the end of passes to fall at the feet of the Wigan defenders and kill all our attacking momentum. His attempt for Finch's try isn't acceptable either.

And stop with the allegations that I've character assassinated anyone. I will admit to potentially exaggerating on occasions, but never ever have I taken it to a personal level.

I'd still have Wello's children for the effort he's put into the club. He's just not good enough any more and the club need to move on.

Blessing in disguise this loss, I think there is an overreaction of disappointment in the rating of our players.
We,ve known all season that we have no structure, mental toughness, grunt in the pack etc, so I wasn't,t surprised with our performance today in what we must admit in Wigan they are a much better organised team.
Perhaps we might on paper look better with Manu and Turner next season but we still need a 1, 6, 7. 8 and 10 for 2013, we need to accept we are mid table team which will occasionally provide good performances...but these are just false dawns.

You forgot to rate two of the most important people in the Saints organization. Rush and KC. You blame a lack of idea's and enthusiasm for your defeat. Well this rests at the feet of two men. Is it not their job to motivate the players and put together a winning game plan?

Rush - 0/10

KC - 0/10

King Kong - 8/10 Our offensive was not at it's best. Luckily for you.

Nah. It's all the fault of Royce Simmons! He's still haunting the team you see. Turning them into a mid table outfit with only a few who show much in the way of brains, brawn or pretty much anything else really!

to be fair, you were still blaming potter half way through last season whenever we had a bad game

Jeez, Simon, light the feck up why don't you? I was popping the Pie's bubble for heaven's sake.

I thought mods weren't supposed to stir the pooh btw Simon? I thought they were supposed to moderate it?

And I thought its against the AUP to comment on a mods moderating ?

Its a benefit of being a dictator not an elected official

Nope. You were chosen to be a moderator, you didn't assume the role yourself. I'm sure whether you remain a moderator is out of your hands too, yes?

Not that I'm questioning your ability or otherwise as a moderator, just discussing the way in which moderators are given the job on here.

It's a big clique, only the coolest get called, and when you're in, you're in for life. It's like the Mason's but oh so much cooler

That can't be right because I'm not a moderator.

oh, and i'm open to bribes for promotions too

I'll give you some fluff from my pocket and a happy slap?

Cool maybe but the Masons sounds like more of a laugh, especially after a few beers.

erm tempting, but i only accept slaps from pretty ladies!

I can be a pretty lady.....

Pretty ladies do not pack down in the backrow (unless its a euphamism of course !)

If Brown was watching ,he must be regretting taking the job for next year.He is inheriting the worst Saints squad in years and turning this mess round won't happen overnight.