A very good point...

I also think its hard for Roby to shine as much in attack when he is playing behind a well beaten pack. Hull's ruck speed was far quicker than ours - they were finding their feet much quicker and leaving 2-3 defenders on the floor at times. This allowed Houghton to look good.

Dont kid yourselves, if this was reversed and our pack had been on top like theirs then Roby would have shone just like Houghton. I think the sad fact is that our own pack is killing off Roby by not gaining quick enough play the balls. Not the first time this season either.

Also interesting that Walmsley doesn't seem to be getting much spoken about him - for a professional athlete (in any sport) to be as unfit as he is isnt acceptable. He takes one drive in a game and then stands for next 30 seconds bent over with his hands on his hips and seems incapable of playing longer than 10 mins at a time (and a good 7-8 mins of those are anonymous). His yards with the ball are poor and defensively he is a liability - his laziness to get onside on 4th tackle gave Hull the penalty they needed in build up to their first try and until that point we had looked half decent. If it was Mose putting in this kind of performance everybody would be up in arms but nobody seems to mention it with Walmlsey - and imo he is worse than Mose ever was currently.

I accept he missed pre-season due to injury and that can have an effect to a certain extent but surely by now he should have caught up more than where he is at. For me, him & Vea are currently the forwards who need dropping more than anyone else as their performances just arent good enough

The biggest game of the season for us (lets face it: we have never been this far away from winning the grand final) and we put our worst performance in. Questions have to be asked.

Those questioning Roby are insane. Honestly, what do you expect him to do? He's good, but he's not THAT good

Insane? I don't see how really. He's been a legend for us over the years and his performances have been perhaps amongst the most consistent of any of our elite players over the decades. But time waits for no man and a man flogged irresponsibly since Cunningham retired will obviously feel the effects of that. It is without question that Roby is no longer the player he once was. He's not hitting as hard in defense, he's not making as many runs and he's not as dynamic or dangerous when making them now. Sure, he's having to struggle extra hard because we have such a beaten pack, but that's not the only reason his performances are not what they were. I'm not saying he's a bad player, far from it. He's class and will continue to be next season as well no doubt. But he's not the top hooker in Super League any more. He's not even the best British hooker anymore. He's not even in the top 3 anymore. This is another area Saints are massively failing on, he needs to be replaced now, not in two years. Signing a 32 year old Kiwi who plays less than Gary Wheeler isn't the answer either.

Probably not the top world hooker but easily in the top.2 in SL.

I made this point on another thread regarding Roby. I have the utmost respect for him and what he does for the team, but should your clubs marquee player really be someone who makes 40+ tackles per game and who's impact is so heavily reliant on the performance of his 5 other forwards? Surely a marquee should be a match winner? Someone who can turn a game on his own? As much as Roby is quality, im not sure he would fall into that category.

Perhaps KC could make it his next project and put Turner there?