Funny thing is that at the end of 2011 and 2012 when it ended so successfully that some posters weren't content with the end result as the league season had disappointed so much.....now we have to wait for the end result before enjoying a SO FAR enjoyable league campaign......I believe the phrase "papering over the cracks" was quite common place shortly after being crowned SL champions in '11 & '12.

April 13th 2003 - we beat Saints in the CC semi, whilst it didn't lead to any success in the 2003 season I think most look back on it as the game that kind of kick started the Golden Generation period and suggested to us that they could lead us to trophies in the future.

April 17th 2015 - we beat Saints away in what is a typically bogey fixture for us with a team filled with younger players that looks like it could go ahead and win things in the future.

Like 2003, this season could end up trophyless. We know how hard getting over the final hurdle in the CC can be and with the playoffs now condensed into just 4 teams and two weeks then any of the 4 who make it could hit form and win imo. But I think regardless, we possibly will look back on Friday's game in years to come as a similar significant game as to the win over the same opposition almost 12 years ago to the day.

100%. I'm pretty sure he'll have looked at what was best for the team and decided it would be a good time to move on and try something he has always expressed a desire to do before hanging his boots up.

I wasn't a fan initially, but I'll admit BM appears to be doing a pretty good job.

I agree that Sinfield and Peacock pulling the pin has probably enabled BM to try a few other options. Probably the most interesting position is halfback, where it looks as though Sutcliffe-McGuire is now the preferred option.

Perhaps with Sinfield leaving the view is that so long as he lasts the season he can play 13 and take his knocks, as there's no requirement (from a Rhinos perspective) to prolong his career? I seem to recall that was the original rationale behind moving back to 6.

Aiton's form has also demanded that he be given more game time, at the expense of Burrow. Even without Sinfield its hard to see Rob getting significantly more game time unless Aiton gets injured or he starts to spark as he did a few years ago.

It will certainly be interesting to see if these remain the preferred selections when it comes to sudden-death matches, or whether BM will become more conservative.

Rob Burrow will no doubt prefer to be on the field for 80 minutes, but there is no denying that he's still lethal coming off the bench in short stints against heavier legs. I see that being a role he takes quite a bit this year.

I always rated McDermott. What's really pleasing is that he still seems prepared to learn. Not necessarily an accusation I'd make of one or two of his principal rivals.

I think Brian has earned some criticism tonight. He got all the tactics all wrong.

Warrington are rubbish and have been for the majority of this season. They were there for the taking and the Rhinos fluffed their lines.

No point blaming injuries or referees for a defeat to a second rate side.

good game bruce?... good game?

what you you get for a pair in this game brucie?

I thought Wire were very good and their tactics were spot on. They've a big set of props and an excellent backrow alongside 2 cracking hookers. They used that to their advantage and ripped us apart down the middle.

I don't quite see what was wrong with our tactics. It was our tired-looking performance that was the issue. No support for the ball carrier and not enough men in the tackle. That's nothing to do with tactics.

What about the "tactic" to use our starting props for the entire first half (Cuthbertson for the first 60 minutes)? Or of leaving Sinfield on the bench throughout the first half when we desperately needed control and some form of kicking game.

Honestly, just when you think BMac knows what he's doing he defies you. (To be fair, he also has a habit of defying you just when you think he doesn't know what he's doing. He's a very peculiar coach.)

Well Peacock is definitely capable of doing 40 mins and IIRC Singleton went off in the first half but I can't really recall when.

I also can see why he left Sinfield off. We looked like we needed pace and energy rather than steady as she goes. If anything I'd say we needed Burrow on rather than Sinfield.

I don't think the props, in isolation, or the kicking game was the issue. We just didn't support each other either in attack or defence.

We didn't support the ball carrier, there was nowhere enough bodies in motion when we had the ball except on a couple of occasions in Wire's 20.

And we certainly didn't get enough bodies into the tackle. That's why Wire got quick play the balls which Higham and Clark took advantage of.

I also think it was one of those days where the luck doesn't go for you. If the ball was going to bounce it would bounce in a way that favoured Wire. On numerous occasions we tackled hard enough to dislodge the ball but it went backwards and into a Wire hand. By contrast the times Wire did it to us it went forwards and was a knock on.

There was also a not insignificant effect on the game by the Work Experience Lad with the whistle.

I think Wire's tactics played perfectly to their strengths.
I don't think our tactics not the interchanges were the primary reason for our poor performance. I think the players not playing well enough was the primary reason.

Maybe the effects of Easter and a small squad catching up with us plus missing Briscoe, Hall, JJB & Leuluai, plus Wire playing well, plus us not playing that well.

For me the biggest impact on the game was the ruck speed. The registered seemed to allow the tacklers to lie for an age. Warrinton played to this but we seemed to jump off the tackle and gave them quick ball.

What nonsense. Wire are a good side that have been struggling for form (and to find the right settled team/system) after several major squad changes

I'm never sure if its just my own bias but I've often thought we're poor at taking advantage when refs are allow a slow play of the ball

i agree. It is quite a fine art though and Leeds probably don't train so much on it. The likes of JJB and peacock get pinged for it as not quite fast enough to peel away in time.

as this topic is about brian mac and you question

in mac's case it's 2 grand final wins that make a pair,come back when you can make a pair of grand final wins....good game,good game

I think JJB is dreadful at it, always really blatent even when he isn't penalised.

I'm sure there is a big contrast between how much time different coaches are willing to spend on the "dark arts" such as slowing the PTB. I've always got the impression that Tony Smith for example is quite heavily focused on skills and individual coaching and wouldn't make much time for it.

JJB is like Senior used to be.Good for at least 1 penalty for holding down per game, (or so it seemed).Frustrating to watch at times

It can be frustrating but we missed it so much on Friday. Our play the ball was so slow, yet we failed to control the Ruck when they had the ball.

regarding penalties that jjb concedes i believe that the more tackles a player makes in a game then he is far more likely to concede penalties, as is indicated by our best player this season stevie ward being guilty of conceding 7 penalties despite making 486 tackles imo jjb was having a great start to the season performance wise but he was found guilty of giving 5 penalties away,i'm not sure if these 5 penalties were all tackle related but when you look at his tackle stats in the games that the penalties were awarded against him you will find that his tackle counts were pretty high in those games www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/271 would you rather have a player in your 17 that gives away 0 penalties but who makes the odd tackle when hes on with also a couple of misses thrown in too? if you do then who is going to make those tackles? jjb will easily make our starting 17 each week when fit,especially when the big games come around irrespective of the annoying penalties he gives away

regarding penalties that jjb concedes i believe that the more tackles a player makes in a game then he is far more likely to concede penalties, as is indicated by our best player this season stevie ward being guilty of conceding 7 penalties despite making 486 tackles imo jjb was having a great start to the season performance wise but he was found guilty of giving 5 penalties away,i'm not sure if these 5 penalties were all tackle related but when you look at his tackle stats in the games that the penalties were awarded against him you will find that his tackle counts were pretty high in those games www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/271 would you rather have a player in your 17 that gives away 0 penalties but who makes the odd tackle when hes on with also a couple of misses thrown in too? if you do then who is going to make those tackles? jjb will easily make our starting 17 each week when fit,especially when the big games come around irrespective of the annoying penalties he gives away

You give more penalties away when you lose the collision, so it can be a snowball effect.

You start to lose the collision, you get on the back foot, you give penalties away. You do more tackling, you get fatigued, you start losing the collision.

Spot on. Refs have a natural bias towards the side winning collisions - and rightly so. If you batter a runner you earn the right to control him a little longer, if the ball carrier wins he should be allowed to play the ball quickly.
Best way to win a collision with the ball is to avoid it. The best forwards have good feet and are difficult to get a big hit on. Gareth Ellis was very good, so are JJB and Ablett on a good day.

A hapless defeat to a mediocre club like Widnes certainly will have the McDermott critics coming out of the woodwork.

A McDermott team speciality of a complete regular season capitulation look a possibility again.

But I will reserve judgement until we get Hall and Briscoe back.

I hope we were not holiding either back for the CC game, because it's important for us to keep out lead at the top this year

Hall get his cast off tomorrow so if he gets the ok he could play on Saturday.

Briscoe is still around 6 weeks away I believe.

Stevie Ward twisted an ankle today but didn't seem too bad after the game. Not heard why JJB missed out this week, he might've been not risked with next week in mind. Sinfield, even before today's game I didn't think he'd get picked but regardless of the result and performance, that he would play in the cup game next week.