Watching Warrington this year is like watching a 2004 and 2005 Leeds highlight video. Why could that be?

Tony Smith is good, but I'm reliably informed that his coaching record pales when compared to that Garry Schofield.

SL Era (Regular Round) stats:

Highest Aggregate Game Total - 56 - 1996
Lowest Aggregate Game Total - 44 - 1998

Most Points in a season - 1152 - Leeds - 2005
Least Points in a season - 288 - Huddersfield - 1998

Least Points Conceded in a season - 222 - Wigan - 1998
Most Points Conceded in a season - 1227 - Halifax - 2003

Highest Positive Points Difference in a season - 671 - Warrington - 2011
Highest Negative Points Difference in a season - 855 - Halifax - 2003

Highest Avg Points For Per Game in a season - 43.18 - St Helens - 1996
Lowest Avg Points For Per Game in a season - 12.52 - Huddersfield - 1998

Lowest Avg Points Against Per Game in a season - 9.65 - Wigan - 1998
Highest Avg Points Against Per Game in a season - 46.41 - Workington - 1996

Highest Avg Positive Points Difference Per Game in a season - 26.18 - Wigan - 1996
Highest Avg Negative Points Difference Per Game in a season - 31.64 - Workington - 1996

Simple really the best squad with the greatest depth plays the best rugby!!

[iYear - Man Of Steel - League Position of Club[/i
1996 - Farrel - Wigan finished 2nd
1997 - Lowes - Bradford finished 1st
1998 - Harris - Leeds finished 2nd
1999 - Vowles - Cas finished 5th
2000 - Long - Saints finished 2nd
2001 - Sculthorpe - Saints finished 4th
2002 - Sculthorpe - Saints finished 1st
2003 - Peacock - Bradford finished 1st
2004 - Farrell - Wigan finished 4th
2005 - Lyon - Saints finished 1st
2006 - Wellens - Saints finished 1st
2007 - Roby - Saints finished 1st
2008 - Graham - Saints finished 1st
2009 - Hodgson - Huddersfield finished 3rd
2010 - Richards - Wigan finished 1st

Given that the Mos is announced BEFORE the Grand Final (and thus before we know who the "Champions" are) perhaps it's not that shocking to see that over half the time (8 from 15) it goes to the team that finished top.

I've often wondered what the impact on the MoS list would be if it were announced when all was properly said and done. Perhaps Leeds would've faired better. From '02-'08 the award went to the team finishing top of the league, except rather conveniently for 2004 when not only did Leeds finish top of the league by 9 clear points, we also had a 200+ better points difference than our nearest AND went on to win the GF too. For some reason, the trend was bucked that year. Conspiracy theorists eat your heart out.

MOS is nothing more than a player's popularity contest amongst their peer group.

Leeds players should wear that failure as a badge of honour.

Until the infamous Hokey Cokey in the South of France and things turned very sour for approximately two years.

What is it we pay a coach for then?

Before 2008 that was the player's player of the year. Journalists decided MOS.

Agreed and I would imagine it was used a few times during that glorious run as a motivational tool. Doesn't stop us fans commenting on the poor form that is none of our individuals being recognised between 2004 and 2009

Tony Smith would not make Wakey a great side - without the personnel it doesn't how good a coach they there is only so much they can add.

Smith is a great coach - but as he showed the previous 2 years at Warrington he cannot do it without the players.

Even McDermott could have coached the 2004 side to where it finished - oh wait a minute!!

The question is this if the whole of Leeds' success was down to Smith how did things go so wrong in 2005!!

You might be right. At Leeds he had a great bunch of youngsters all coming through at the same time, at Warrington they've bought a great bunch of players.

He still gets credit for making them play together as well as do.

The previous two years when he won trophies in each of them?

When smith took over, both leeds and warrington had excellent squads. He made a few subtle signings here and there and turned both squads from being excellent on paper to excellent on grass.

It will be interesting to see how his time at warrington evolves after he wins the title with them this year. Certainly with ourselves things seemed to go very stale after the first 20months and didn't pick up until that last little hurrah in the playoffs.

It's worth bearing in mind that coaches, as well as players, learn from their experiences. Smith was hardly a vastly experienced coach when he was leading Leeds to the title in 2004, or taking us to agonising defeats in 2005. He won't have stayed the same coach, doing the same things he did then - I would have thought the 2006 downturn will have tought him some valuable lessons.

And for everyone who says he inherited or had bought great squads - of all clubs Leeds know that can mean very little, moreso nowadays in a sport when all the top clubs have identical budgets.

Smith can't prevent himself from making poor signings, or using tactics which other coaches have found ways to counteract. Only hindsight can prevent these things.

Smith strikes me as someone who is quite arrogant. He had to make the same mistakes again, and again......and again in 2006 before he finally changed.

Arrogant? From media interviews I suppose he might sound that way but I think he is someone who is actually quite shy and reserved which might come across in a certain way if you're looking for something to beat him with. But certainly he has a confidence and an authority - the type you probably have to have to be a good coach over a sustained period; and the type you earn. Leeds fans were on his back in '06 but then there are always people who are willing to jump on you when times are hard and always people who know better. Or think they do. I was one of them.

It's not an easy job and it's impossible to be the best every single time. But to repeatedly and demonstrably improve players, create winning teams and to instill confidence within your team and from your team in yourself and in your tactics tells its own story. To take on failing or underachieving clubs and transform them into winners - again, plenty of Leeds coaches could tell their own tales of how difficult that trick is.

Tony Smith's record speaks for itself.

Many (not all) but many of Leeds' record totals against teams were set during his time leading the club. Considering the many point-fests enjoyed by Warrington this season I imagine the same can be said for them.

Flat-track bullying at it's finest and nothing wrong with that as long as the grit is there to win the close games as well and by and large you have to conclude it was and still is.

Smith may not turn Wakey into Champions but im pretty sure he would improve them. The mark of a good coach is surely getting individual players to perform as well as they possibly can and then getting them all to play as a team. Smith seems to be able to achieve this better than most other coaches in SL as his record proves.
As someone has already pointed out Wire have won trophies the last 2 seasons. Their first for many years.
If you think things went so wrong in 2005 then you have unrealistic expectations. We reached both finals, losing narrowly in the CC and to a Salary cap cheating Bulls in the GF. Won the WCC and played some of the best RL ever seen at Headingley.

People totally under estimate the importance of hunger and desire from players. In a nutshell attitude.

Warrington are not in the same position as Leeds were in 2004. Warrington have aged players, coming to an end. They did have hunger as never achieved much, but now that hunger will to a degree have been met.

By contrast, the Leeds players that achieved the same feat had many years ahead of them and a desire and hunger to dominate for a period. On the oppossite, when Wigan did it they had a great core that grew with the team, but made changes every year in positions to ensure they maintained the dominance.

Smiths done a great job in getting his tools in the right places to turn around Warrington, but he doesn't have the same tools has he had at Leeds, to prolong it. And I am not convinced, in a salary capped sport that he could do the same way Wigan did either.

Yeah. They're crowing now, cock 'o' north aren't they? But soon they will be right down in the pack again, made to look like fools. The cycle complete. AHAHAHAHA

I've never claimed it's all down to the coach. But some of it is down to the coach. You need a strong squad too, but strong squads still need a good coach to deliver.

Tony Smith consistently gets the best out of a given squad. For Leeds 2004 the best meant being good enough to win a title. He did that. Others had failed with what were, on paper, stronger squads. At Wakey, that best might be 9th or 10th place. Would Smith deliver that where Kear has failed? Impossible to say. But I do think a good coach makes a difference.

If you look at 2003 Leeds vs 2004 Leeds, personnel was similar. Would Powell have won the title? Again, totally impossible to say, but I don't believe he would. Obviously a lot of the young players were a year older and wiser, and we added Marcus Bai, but I noticed a very different attitude in 2004, particularly in defence. He made a good team into a winning team.

"Similar" is different to the same. You might think it impossible to say about Powell and 2004, but I don't. As far as I am concerned Leeds would have won it in 2003 had Powell not had ripped away from him two very important players. Hence why I highlighted the word "Similar".

No doubt in my mind with how that team played that it was only natural to take the next step in 2004, even without Smith.

The question which probably would be highlighted more. Would that same Powell team have been as good as the Smith one? and probably further add to that, would that same team have gone on for future years domination? Personally, I would have to say probably not in both cases. But 2004 was always going to happen after that 2003.

Just to clarify that last point simply. IMO Powell would have won the title in 2004, but it probably wouldn't have been in the same style as the Leeds team, and nor IMO would he have gone on to dominate likes Smith side.

You only have to look at the defensive change in lee briers to prove what you said and i think thats one of the key elements Tony Smith brings to any side he coaches

They had two easy runs in the CC both years it is no surprise that the first time they came up against a decent side Wigan took them to the cleaners. Leeds got to the CC final this year without playing a side above them in league until the final!!

What happened in the play offs in 2009 - they didn't make it and 2010 they failed to win either game. So you can question whether he is the x factor?

On here much is said of Smith's ability to improve players but at Warrington - Atkins, Monagahan, Solomona, Myler, Hodgson have all been added in the last 2 years. Any side that adds that to the likes of Morley, Brears, Carvell, Monagahan, Westwood is going to have a pretty good chance of winning something no matter who is coaching them. The side he took over is not the side he is coaching now.

Smith took over from Lowes in time to face Leeds in Round 4 after Warrington had opened with 3 losses. Leeds won a tight game 20 -14 but only after Chris Riley had coughed up a kick return after a great kick-chase and jarring tackle by Jones-Buchanan, allowing McGuire to score the winner unopposed.

The following week was Warrington's rock bottom where they were stuffed 60 - 8 away at Harlequins and Matt King responded to the away support with an ill-advised gesture.

They won the following week at home to Hull KR and ended the season in 10th winning just over half of their remaining fixtures. They also took out the Challenge Cup so obviously five more wins there.

2010 - Another Challenge Cup triumph and a 7 place improvement in SL to finish the Regular Rounds in 3rd.

2011 - Finishing 1st while recording the biggest pts difference in a SL season.

A just reward for investment, management and coaching. 10th to 1st in two seasons is the kind of meteoric rise sadly lacking in SL but well done to Warrington - pity they're aren't more clubs out there capable of this.