No, he's also a loose forward and a centre, and a damn site better loose than O'Loughlin. Sorry I had to spell that out for you. (I didn't really want to do that as it could be misconstrued as disrespectful).

Least with Ablett you'll see some line breaks and some attacking options.

Haha..."nurse - the screens please..."

Haha...."You should have gone to specsavers"

Ablett has had a good season, but he's not in the same league as O'loughlin as a loose forward. When asked at the awards night who he thought should have been MOS Jamie Peacock had no hesitation in saying "Lockers, I voted for him"

Jeff Lima says Lockers is the best player he has ever played with and would walk into any Aussie side. Pat Richards said something very similar at the Wigan end of season dinner on Sunday night.

Someone's clearly still sauced from Saturday.

Yes I guess mine are cherry and white and yours are blue and gold.

Perhaps we will agree to disagree. You say that Carl Ablett is a better Loose Forward than Sean O'Loughlin.

Given that it is one of the key positions in the team I wonder why Carl has never been chosen to play Loose Forward for England, perhaps you are seeing something through your specs that no-one else in the Rugby League world (including 99% of Leeds fans) sees

If Peacock voted for him, it will have been to aid his own chances of winning MOS. It was an absolute joke of the award that O'Loughlin was even a nominee on that list, considering the amount of game time he has had.

Jeff Lima may well have said that, but probably 4 years ago, and considering the brain on that guy that really isn't much of an endorsement.

Ablett is very much in the same league as O'Loughlin, only a much more devastating runner, and better handling skills.

Well the fact that Ablett is a wide running 2nd row and not a LF might have something to do with it.

Speaking of whom will play LF for England, I think Sam Burgess is nailed on for that position.

I could say I also wonder why, but then again I just realise that there has hardly been many internationals since Ablett put himself in the frame, and probably that being the reason.

I should also point out I am not suggesting Ablett for Loose for England in the world cup, that should be Burgess. I am mearly pointing out, that I think there is better than O'Loughlin. It isn't a Wigan thing either, I just don't think he is all that.

I always thought that a good LF should combine running hard like a prop with passing like a half back. O'Loughlin is the only candidate who combines those skills.

As I say again - the best player in the best team in Super League.

Sean O'Loughlin isn't as good as Wigan fans seem to think he is (nobody's that good....) and I'd take serious issue with him being the best player in Super League. I do like him as a player though and he might well be the best loose forward in Super League. I'd want him on the pitch for England in the Autumn. I would also want Sinfield and Sam Burgess on the pitch. Which is complicated.

However, what is clearly a bit of a nonsense is the poster above saying that some players shouldn't be selected becasue of past failures against the Aussies, but O'Loughlin should definitely play. I agree he should play, but your own logic dictates that he shouldn't. For me, this shows that your logic is flawed.

I guess, if I take it as gospel that the Aussi-based players have been playing well as people who care about the NRL have told me, I'd go with something like:

Tomkins
Charnley
Watkins
Cudjoe
Hall

Sinfield
Widdop

Graham
Roby
G. Burgess
S.Burgess
Ablett
O'Loughlin

Hill
T.Burgess
Hock
McIlorum

(McIlorum's frankly superb showing on the big occasion having finally won me over at the weekend).

I also don't really mind exactly what order that back row lines up in. Ablett has been superb this year, and in a match day 17 also gives you an option should there be an injury to one of your three quarters.

I could be tempted by the Hardaker at full back and Tomkins to half instead of Widdop idea. But resisted temptation for now.

The logic may be flawed but the point that I raised is there are a number of players tainted by past failure. O'Loughlin doesn't come into this as HE WAS INJURED AND THERFORE DIDN'T PLAY IN THE LAST WORLD CUP. He also played in the victorious 2006 team. So he hasn't failed against Australia.

2004 tri nations? for GB
2010 four nations?

Once off the bench in 2004 in a tournament that England won and he didn't play against Australia in 2010 Ben Westwood played at 13.

England didn't win the 2004 4 tri nations.

Roby or Mcilorum not Roby and Mcilorum imo, neither are impact hookers and we would be better with another forward on the bench.

As for Hardaker/Tomkins, id like to see us put Hardaker on the wing possibly in one of the warm up games see how we handle the switch of pushing him to FB, Tomkins to half, Ablett to Centre and Watkins to Wing

Quote ="Aboveusonlypie"Once off the bench in 2004 in a tournament that England won and he didn't play against Australia in 2010 Ben Westwood played at 13.'" He did play in 2010. So he has failed news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 142012.stm

Quote ="Aboveusonlypie"Once off the bench in 2004 in a tournament that England won and he didn't play against Australia in 2010 Ben Westwood played at 13.'" He did play in 2010. So he has failed news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 142012.stm

Oh dear, look at all those Wigan players. However didn't we manage to batter the Aussies with FIVE Wigan players? Must have been a poor ref!

Which tournament did we win? It certainly wasn't the one the Aussies were in. I distinctly recall a GB side (not England) including Sean O'Loughlin getting royally humped by Australia at Elland Road.

He definitely also played in 2010.

Oh, and he did indeed play in the win in Sydney in 2006. He also played in the subsequent mauling in Brisbane when the title was on the line. But only, to be fair, in one of the two beatings by the Kiwis in that hugely successful tour.

Can't say I've ever been particularly fussed for O'Loughlin, but then I don't watch Wigan all that often. To be honest I think ' cheap shot merchant' before I think 'best player in SL'. I also doubt Australia would pick someone who has only player twice in recent months.

That said, he's gonna be involved so I hope the hype surrounding him is proven and i'm able to reassess my opinion. Judging by most of the comments on here, we're mentally beaten already. I personally believe we have the players to win the WC. It's the coach thats a worry

We've got a decent record against the Kiwis on home soil. The final is a real possibility.

If we found ourselves in the final against Australia, they will be big favourites. But we can still approach the game with the right spirit and intensity. If we do that then Australia are still big favourites, but upsets happen in sport.

Mission: Improbable. Not Mission: Impossible

Pity Sinfield is in, when he was crowned best player in the world he literally became the most overrated player there's ever been. Should be nowhere near the England team.

Having someone in the halves who's so slow would be disastrous against the quality of Oz or NZ, he's not a patch on McM or Roby at 9 and clearly not good enough to play in the backrow.

I personally think that most good teams should have an organiser and a running flair player at halfback. He may not be the quickest, but he is the best controller of a game in SL. If you had anyone else in there, it'd be headless chickens out there

I do think now that's his best quality, an on field coach, but I do believe there's other players who can run a team and offer more than he does as a player.