You are delusional.

Positives:
Keinhorst - proving his worth as a squad player. Not the most skillful but makes up for that with high workrate and good defence.
Falloon - we looked better going forward and it was obvious to see the difference a proper hooker makes.
JJB - his speed in both attack and defence will be useful
Effort was excellent in defence but not directed in the right way.
Also pleased we're still determined and seem able to throw the ball around. That will pay dividends later in the season when we regain some form.

Negatives:
Everything else.
McDermott was right, the Sky lot were praising Leeds defence when I thought it was awful. Poor kick chase combined with poor contact in the tackle meant Wigan made loads of easy metres and made numerous breaks through weak contact and quick play the balls. It was only pure effort and poor Wigan attack that kept us in it.
Whilst I've named JJB as a positive it was entirely his fault for Wigan's try from the tap, he came flying out of the line and got caught out by a simple dummy run that left a huge gap in our defence.
Our 5th tackle plays are still rubbish. We've never been good on the 5th tackle except for on Grand Final day but we're particularly bad at the moment.


I have utterly no idea what game Eddie Hemmings was watching when he praised Wigan's attack and Leeds defence, if any evidence were needed that he hasn't actually paid attention to what's going on in RL over the last 20 years then that was it. Time to go, Eddie.

I await you asking William the same question for this retort to another poster on a different thread

"You thick, Stupor League t"

.....come on Sal, ask him why the insults too?

Leave him be Sal.

It'll be the SSRIs he's on.

Strange to select their 5th (71st minute) last try to criticise, when the game was well and truly lost. Stranger still to be selective in highlighting mistakes from two of our best players who had run themselves into the ground, while excluding Hardaker's missed tackle in "their combined effort" for the same try or indeed some of the other missed tackles that led to most of the other tries.

I think your Hardaker obsession is getting a little boring and long in the tooth now....... It's interesting how you turn everything back to him, just give it up you're making yourself look a bit of a twit, maintain some dignity you made your point now let it ride Jesus.

It's funny you say that because as a Wiganer I'm disappointed that we didn't score 50 points as IMO Leeds were terrible for the full 80 minutes and were there for the taking big time and we missed the chance to give you a massive tonking

I think he was getting at the point you were hardly at full strength yourselves and had the very late withdrawal of one of your main attacking threats...you [iwere[/i there for the taking: the fact that the present Leeds team was incapable of taking advantage is an indictment of Leeds's poor form

What is interesting is that some folk are blind to Hardaker's defensive lapses. Are you wanting to pretend Hardaker didn't also miss his tackle for the same try that Keinhorst and JJB were being bagged for? After all some have claimed ZH was one of our best players.

No one is blind to his "defensive lapses".....just some of us whilst knowing he's the best defensive FB in the league also don't unrealistically expect him to make every single tackle and stop every single try that comes his way.

Same thing every time from the same two posters who bagged him before the start of last year, if he doesn't stop a try then they ALWAYS bring it up because of what was said in that thread over 12 months ago.

Many were/are previously blind to his attacking lapses which was the main point I made more than a year ago. Some have now seen my points were/ valid regarding his attacking limitations. I have often praised him for his good qualities but argued against the over hype that was bestowed on him.

If it is ok to point out mistakes and errors of others in the side why is Hardaker so precious that has errors go unrecorded. I never expect any player to be mistake free or make every tackle and I acknowledge that FB is a difficult position where you can be made to look foolish on occasions where you have to make 50:50 decisions. But against Wigan he made several missed tackles that cost us tries which on other days would have made. Hence I argued against those that thought him one of our best players.

I wish him well and hope he soon recovers his form but please don't expect me to refrain from posting an opinion just because I maybe in the minority.

Jones-Buchanan and Keinhorst simultaneously cross over and clear a path through a set defensive line from for a tap penalty restart. Why?

I'd like to see someone analyse that at Jon Wells' wall and it wouldn't be Hardaker.

JJB goes flying out of the defensive line at a dummy runner leaving the huge gap next to Keinhorst.
JJB's exuberance got the better of him on this occasion.

Yeah I'd put the blame on JJB for that one unfortunately. Whilst still disappointing and bad to concede a try like that, I suppose a mistake like that happening because someone was too enthusiastic isn't as bad as it happening and the gap being there because of laziness/lack of effort.

Well first of all I wasn't really defending him nor any of his missed tackles, just don't have a dig at other posters for pointing out others mistakes in a game than turn every little thing back to the same player it's getting boring....... But if you want to go there then let's discuss the 3/4 tackles he made that prevented a try shall we?

Spot on. Yes Hardaker could've done better (and we've seen him do so many times) on Manfredi & Gelling but the reason people are highlighting other players in those tries is because the play should never have even gotten to Hardaker.

Manfredi should've been stopped by an organised united kick chase line, Gelling stopped by JJB and Keinhorst.

The reason people aren't bagging Hardaker for those tries (or some others in previous games) is because quite frankly the FB shouldn't be left to make one on ones. If he is then something has gone wrong beforehand to put him in that situation and why people will concentrate of what caused the 1 on 1 and not on if Hardaker didn't make the save.

I don't doubt his enthusiasm just his decision making sometime, such as his wedgie lift putting the Wigan winger in a dangerous position, lets the team down.

For the nonsense that was conceding the Gelling try - it was a set defensive line until Jones-Buchanan broke it by trying to solve a potential problem all by himself.

It's a recurring theme with this allegedly inteligent player, defence is most effective when it works as a unit not as a bunch of disparate individuals.

Im sure he and the coach knows it.

I was as, you say, having a dig at one poster that suggested Hardaker was one of our best players and responding to another who was having a dig at two of our best players while omitting to include Hardaker who also made a mistake in letting in the same try. Why is this not fair in your book?

It is only getting boring to those that do not want to be reminded of his increasing mistakes for some reason. But it is no more boring than pages of critical comment on Feres, Galloway, Burrow, Lilley, Sutcliffe, Mullaly etc and even our top tackle Delaney. I have not noted your boredom regarding these more frequent postings!

Frankly I get bored with those that seek to gag others who offer views they don't like. If you think I am wrong why not put up a counter argument? I am open to be convinced.

I already have credited Hardaker for some of his good defensive work particularly in the first half and have acknowledged his good work many times.

JJB has acknowledged his mistake but in fairness to both JJB & Keinhorst it was the 71st minute when the game was well and truly lost and obviously both players were really fatigued for good reason as they had both run themselves into the ground. So yes I agree the defensive line should have stopped him first but so should our last line of defense as he would have done in last seasons form. One on one tackling is part and parcel for a fullback and has been one of Hardaker's strongest abilities but this season he has been going high into the tackle and getting brushed off which didn't use to happen often before.

IMO we should be examining the defensive mistakes that led to the crucial early tries when we were still in the game which included missed tackles from not just Hardaker.

Hardaker was pretty good, he did make a couple of errors. Could in increase in the amount of work he's had to do be leading to increased mistakes?

JJB usually and successfully leads our defensive line at speed, something that has been sadly lacking in his absence. He has admitted his mistake and perhaps he was trying too hard to turn the tide in his first game back after so long. This error was the same one that Sinfield made in the Word Cup and is something that most players are guilty of from time to time. Are you suggesting this makes Sinfield unintelligent too?

Another to add to the list...

SPOTY
Kiwis
November floods
Silverwood
Winter
Mindsets of Unconscious Complacency
Exuberance & Enthusiasm

If a player recognises mistakes but continues to make them then he isn't displaying the intelligence he allegedly possesses.

I criticised Sinfield for that effort on Johnson in the World Cup semi-final. Unlike the one on Friday though Johnson was at least the player posing the actual threat, as he was in possession, rather than a perceived one.

Sinfield was certainly not unintelligent at Super League level but was often out of his depth at international level and flustered into making unintelligent decisions. He was instrumental in England losing that World Cup Semi final against the Kiwis with two horrendous examples of flawed decision making and utter balls-up's under the strain of the pressure of international RL against world class opposition. He's not used to encountering such situations in a Super League context.

Some you win, some you lose. Sinfield's was a poor decision given England were winning. JJB's was also a poor decision although, in the context of that match, more forgivable. Sometimes you need to resort to desperation tactics to alter the momentum; it usually fails but it can turn the occasional game.