Does anyone wonder how much of an influence Stuart Cummins has over these decisions ?

His desperation for the "try" to be disallowed last night was evident from his hissy fit at Brian Carney along the lines of "I'm right, it's not a try". I can't think for one second that the VR cannot here what he is saying and is influenced by it ? Still, I could be wrong.

Was the decision to disallow the "try" last night, any different from Cummins desperation to allow the Wardle try for Huddersfield (away), when, from memory he seemed to suggest it was Adam Cuthbertson's responsibility to get around the defender to attempt to stop Wardle ? If that's the case Tomkins had plenty of time get get around Watkins as he was practically at the side of him when Watkins ran through ?

Another poster mentioned the onside/offside thing as well for Farrell's try, which would have been interesting to see again as it was very tight (along with the blatant forward pass for the pass before Burgess got it).

Overall though, in the grand scheme of things, it was a great game. I though a draw would have actually been a fair result, however, you doff your cap to Wigan, and move on. With Hardaker, Briscoe, Ward, JJB, Garbutt, and Achurch out to take Wigan all the way to the wire with them near full strength (did they just have Gelling and Manfredi out ?) we should take a lot away from that game...apart from the 2 points !!

The Onside/Offside for the Farrell try looked very close for me on second viewing.

After seeing it from behind the sticks I was shocked Silverwood didn't send it upstairs

A good in which played as well as Wigan. They didn't get the rub of the green decision wise it happens. A couple of poor decisions in attack - one from McGuire and poor execution from Aiton and poor ref decisions would not have mattered.

The concern is the form of certain players: Hall looks out of condition and over weight. Ablett is inconsistent at best and his error count and penalty give aways cost the game. Moon looks a shadow of the player he was.

Still lots of positives with two games to go Leeds should finish top going into the split

At the time I thought it was a terrible decision, but after having time to consider the decision, whilst not agreeing with it, I do believe it is in line with the current interpretation. McGuire actually crossed behind Watkins before passing the ball, we have seen players pulled for that many times in open field even when the "obstructing" player doesn't make contact with the defenders. You could see from the replays that the VR seemed to want to give the decision, but he kept going back to McGuire's crossing behind Watkins. IMO that is the difference between that try and the one where Cuthbertson was obstructed a few weeks ago.

The RFL do need to consider the obstruction rule but I do believe it was refereed in line with current policy.

Hall was excellent bringing the ball back and helping the forwards in that period second half especially when we were under the pump.I agree he hasn't been at his best on attack but don't doubt he will pick that up when the big big games come (semis and finals), he always does.regards Moon, you must be watching a different player to me, shadow of the player he was? ok, not at his best last night but is having his best year for us so far imo.

On Hall his defensive positioning has been poor in recent weeks and his mobility would also be a concern for me. If you look at Moon how many opportunities is he setting up for his winger? His defending is definitely a notch down on last year but then so is the whole team

What seems to have been overlooked/ignored in the "no try" decision by everyone except Carney is Tomkins starting position.
He comes from 3 or 4 metres from his right to the left, ie an incorrect defensive read. When he realises this he sticks out his right leg which is what Watkins brushes against then throws up his arms. That is what Silverwood sees.
Re Carney has anyone else noticed the increasing friction/tension between him & Stevo?
Carney increasingly is questioning Stevo's comments/statements much to Stevo's annoyance.
He's now starting to do the same to Cummins with the same effect.
Hemmings is stepping in to calm Stevo down.
I love it.

I still believe the only reason the try was chalked off was because McGuire ran behind Watkins before passing, you could see this because the VR ran the play a number of times and kept stopping as McGuire passed the ball. This is pinged all over the park under the rules when no physical obstruction takes place and I believe this left the VR with no option under those same rules.

But McGuire doesn't run behind him. It's Singleton isn't it that is pulled and who passes?

was it, sorry I assumed it was Mags. I was watching on a dodgy website and the quality wasn't brilliant, that and other distractions in the room didn't help. Either way I believe that was the reason for it being chalked off.

You rush to these outlandish judgments a lot. Is Keinhorst still "never a Super League player" or do you no longer have a hole in your arris?

I try to console myself with the fact that Leeds had the benefit of the worst decision EVER in Super League...and that was the Tansey Try vs Bradford

Exactly. What if he'd have let that last play with Ablett play on and we score and he THEN checks for the VR? Sure he can send it upstairs as a no try but what if Ablett was tackled 20m short and then got a quick PTB away and we scored? Too late to check then.

One occasion he blew straight away for obstruction, the other he let play continue until we scored.

Nope.

It was correct under the 2014 interpretation, which was that if you carry the ball behind one of your own players it's a penalty irrespective of where the defenders are. However, players, coaches, fans and journalists moaned so much about that interpretation that it was changed for this year.

A defender now has to be materially disadvantaged by the dummy runner (i.e. prevented from making the tackle). There were other incidents last night where a player ran behind team-mates and Silverwood called play-on, pointing out that nobody had been impeded.

That Stuart Cummings (albeit retired, but a former head of referees) hasn't even bothered to keep himself up to date despite that being the whole point of his role with Sky doesn't distract from the fact that under the 2015 interpretation, that isn't obstruction.

On the Aiton one late in the game, how was that different to what Craig Huby did in the game at Headingley for one of Huddersfield's tries where he just stepped into Cuthbertson?

Last season it was pinged when no physical obstruction takes place. This reason the interpretation is *supposed* to have change to remove that farce

Silverturd and co's inept performance aside i thought we had some very good spells but also some p!$$ poor ones.
Ablett and Mcguire must be the thickest 2 players we have (when Jjb is missing) for conceding needless dumb stupid penalties and our defence in open play at times was pathetic imo far too many "Andy Hay" efforts for my liking.
On the upside some of the passing and movement was sublime ,Aiton daft penalty aside was outstanding and Handley again had a very good game.
Cuthbertson has to be our best signing in a long time and must be in the running for MOS.

wish I had a pound for every ablett ball steal penalty

Cummings said something about it being different because it was near to the try line - I think he makes things up!

he didnt say that during the hudds-leeds game earlier this year, weirdly enough

It's such a shame that something that should have prevented controversial decisions only adds to them. I wonder how long it will be before teams realise they are best taking a tackle after a long sweeping movement - going through many hands in the process - and then actually scoring on the next tackle? It will stop the bluddy referee copping out and going to the video ref. He won't be able to.

.. I seem to remember Leeds at least been victims of this on a couple of occassions now. Wasn't there once a specific "re-run the whole move" from a referee? It ruins the whole euphoria of the moment.

I also seem to remember the video ref intervening when the referee in the field of play misses something. Wasn't Moon pulled up for a foul this way once? Why can they apparently do this sometimes but not on others? As always it's the inconsistency in the game that infuriates.

Better still...scrap the video ref.

The re-run the whole play ("check everything"icon_wink.gif was the long final play vs Hudds at home last year when Briscoe was finally judged to shoulder barge Brough when both were going for the loose ball in-ball.

The Moon incident was last year vs Saints. Silverwood's seems happy with the tackle until Percival doesn't get up and asks the VR to review it. On his advice he then sends Moon off.

Two erratic and non-consistent uses of the VR system and Silverwood was referee both games.

I thought Thaler was poor tonight.

Well said mate good post.

And St.Helens scored from one Friday night, just like the one Leeds had chalked off. Consistency is non existant.

Says it all really doesn't it...!!