You do realise my post was referring to before today's game?

As you quoted my post, would just like to say thought Tomkins was excellent defensively today. Weirdly though, I thought offensively he was lacking.

If you are referring to today, then get your lenses changed. Graham was absolutely outstanding, and the foundation England built on.

Possibly



Not sure Chris Hill has been best prop.....but he has been one of the better consistently good but not outstanding individuals.

I am happy to state Sam Burgess showed today why he has the reputation he has....fantastic performance. However, Graham is still England's best prop IMO. I love his effort, commitment, go forward AND skill at passing at the line.

What a performance today .... Superb match. Feel genuinely gutted for the players. Without a doubt Widdop justified his selection. I was wrong. AND happy to be wrong. Played like that there can be no doubt RL is by far the best team sport in the world. Fantastic: cannot say it enough

Yes realised too late, apologies, but never said Graham played poorly just that he made a couple terrible split second decisions but luckily England weren't punished. I would suggest he dives on the ball rather than kicking it into the oppositions hands on the last play which could have led to a dangerous Kiwi counter attack had the ref not blown up for a knock on.

Awesome match though!

Our left side was not so good on defence either. Hall let one in and was lucky it wasn't two a few minutes later. He did this in the WCC which also cost us. I thought our right side could have made more of the chances they created but the NZ defence was too good.

Overall great effort and we made enough chances for a deserved win. Discipline and errors let us down. Sam Burgess, Graham and Sinfield stood out with good effort from Widdup.

I felt the coach brought on Burrow too soon. He could have been more effective in the second half with our first choice props on and when NZ were looking dazed.

So, Widdop showed his NRL class then?

He went ok. Our attacking patterns were set by the SL class of Sinfield, Roby and O'Loughlin.

Our 2 starting props certainly did the NRL proud though.

It seems wrong and harsh to try and highlight individual mistakes in a game like today's. Every single player gave it everything, and to make the wrong read or drop a ball in a game with such intensity is understandable. It was played in the right spirit and I don't know how more of them weren't injured. A brilliant advert for our sport and I'm immensely proud of them all, and to be a rugby league fan.

How much game time did Ablett get today?

Enough to share his experiences with his Leeds team mates of the same bench club.

Our right side could have made more of their chances, but I'd say that there were some poor decisions rather than just quality defence. Think the NZ left side was weak, and there were half-chances where 1) Watkins passed too early, 2) Tomkins held on with an overlap, 3) Charnley was positioned in front of Watkins denying him a line-breaking pass, 4) Charnley couldn't finish off a clean break.

None of these were terrible pieces of play, but I reckon the Hayne and Morris partnership would have scored from at least a couple of them. And that's the difference.

Agree with you about Burrow though. Roby and Graham were having hugely influential games. Taking them both off at the same time was a mistake. Burrow is best brought on when the game needs changing, which it didn't.

Dunno how accurate these are, but according to George Riley:

Sam Burgess: 18 runs, 206 metres, 29 tackles, three offloads, one line break, one try assist, one try.

Wowser.

Would like to see Graham's also, as at the game I thought he did even more of the hard work, with Burgess the quality.

I thought they were both outstanding. Our whole forward pack was awesome, but those two were immense.

James Graham was outstanding yesterday without doubt

However, the way he played yesterday there has to be a strong argument for Sam Burgess being the best forward in world rugby at the moment and I do include SBW in that. He can play prop, loose and second row with ease and just looks unstoppable at times.

I have also been very impressed with Chris Hill in this tournament - slightly quieter yesterday but looked class in my opinion throughout.

What a shame only one of these players plays in Super League

James Graham played 62 mins 16 runs for 137 metres made 41 tackles

Thank you. Thought so, his work rate was immense, that tackle count for 62 minutes and for a prop is phenomenal.

Very Peacock esq yesterday. Really set the platform.

The stats of the official website are:

Sam B: 173 mtrs - 19 Carries - 28 Tkls - 2 Miss Tkls - 6 Busts - 2 Cln Bks - 0 Err- 3 OLs - 1 pen - 1 try - 1 assist
Graham: 151Mtrs - 19 Carries - 36 Tkls - 0 Miss T - 1 Bust - 0 CBs - 0 Errors - 1 Pen - 0 try - 0 assist
Sony Boy: 141 Mtrs - 20 carries - 33 Tkls - 4 Miss T - 2 Busts - 0 CBs - 3 Errors - 4 OLs - 0 Pens - 0 Try - 0 assist

Deserved MOM for Sam but also outstanding display from Graham. The stats do not record his passing skills as he plays a lot at first receiver and helped create the first try. He also (I think) made (with others) the last six consecutive tackles in the match.

What a never say die rugby nation New Zealand are! Not only do they win the RL World Cup semi against England with a last minute conversion but today their Union boys beat Ireland with an exact repeat of the same in the last minute.

The third best player IMO was Sinfield who despite his tragic missed tackle and missed conversion was also outstanding. Sport can be so cruel but it is this unpredicatability until the final whistle that makes it so special.

Sadly, if they wish to truly compete at this level our forwards need to be based down under.
There's no way that Sam B would be the player he is now had he stayed in the UK.
The longer off season & the better coaching that they get there is the reason for that.

Don't agree at all. Burgess and Graham were already excellent players in this country, and that was whilst young.

Remember, Westwood, O'Loughlin, Roby, and Hill, also played their part in yesterday's forwards display.

We need to stop flogging our top players. 35-40 fixtures in a season is ridiculous for such a ferocious product as top level rl. Hope the rfl build on this, they have a fantastic opportunity.

Yesterday was the first time I've ever felt absolutely gutted at an international match, such emotions usually reserved for Rhinos only! To keep roughly on subject, Widdop was fantastic, hopefully the end of one season wonder Chase in an England shirt.

Agreed.graham was that same player whilst at saints and burgess was ripping up the aussies whilst still 20 and at the Bulls in the 09 four nations.the NRL is a great comp. But we need to draw the line when it comes to giving them the credit for everything good about our game.saints and Bulls made Graham and Burgess,simple as that.

I have to partially agree with Old Feller certainly in the case of Sam Burgess and his brothers that there developments have been better served by playing in the superior competition and having a tougher outing week on week in the NRL. Graham was already much more developed than Tom George or Sam Burgess when he went to play for the Bulldogs so I think Saints can take pretty much all of the credit for him. When Sam Burgess played for Bradford he was a very good forward, now even the convicts readily acknowledge that he's the worlds best forward.

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... efeat.html Poor guy, clearly torn up - no blame to anybody though, great tournament.

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... efeat.html Poor guy, clearly torn up - no blame to anybody though, great tournament.

The difference the NRL has made to Burgess and Graham is marginal, but it has made one. Against Australia Burgess made some vital cover tackles which required him to read the play. That reading of the game has come from the NRL. Physically he always had the raw materials, but I'd argue he's just a better all-round player than he would have been had he stayed in England.

I think the difference would be far bigger if we saw SL outside backs in the NRL, and it would make an enormous difference to developing halfbacks IMO.

I would probably rate our best players on Saturday thus:

Burgess
Graham
Sinfield
O'Loughlin

Any of them below Burgess would have been MOM in most of the other England/GB sides I've seen.

Warched the match again yesterday. Still amazed by it. There were errors, but it was a real test match and I haven't seen many like it between any nations in 25 years watching RL. I also, having calmed down and in the cold light of day, can't remember ever seeing a starting front row perform better than that for anyone. I am still struggling to get my head round that being a loss. We've played so much worse than that and won quite a few times over those 25 years.