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| Quote ="G1"Number of Selections in the dream team.'"
I don't rate eithers chances very highly in 2010. Broughton, I suspect, will continue to improve though and that will continue to be reflected in the relative stats.
Quote ="G1"Only, it would seem, if they're players rated by you (see appraisals of Ashley Gibson and Tom Bush).'"
The key is making sure you release the right ones at the right time and retain the right ones for succession planning. Leeds will very likely need a new winger shortly. Leeds must have a real bolter (as yet unseen at 1st grade level) perhaps Chisolm?
Quote ="G1"Donald's form up to and including the Huddersfield game last year which was, frankly, even though I am a fan, abysmal.'"
As the master of the concise appraisal do you have any kind words for Tom Bush yet? |
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| Quote ="tvoc"Links to any such offer would prove useful. Taken at face value the offer of a deal by Leeds would counter Leicester's claim that Leeds did not want to retain him.
Broughton has scored 9 tries in 15 SL Regular Round games in somewhat hapless teams (Hull 2009 and Salford 2010)
I wonder how many tries Scott Donald managed to score in his first 15 SL Regular Round games for Leeds?
The former is a young local lad, the latter is a relatively expensive by comparison Australian so that will score him some undeserved points in some quarters round here.
Is that a couple of good performances in addition to the one at the weekend you mention above?
Broughton has played a total of=#FF000015 rounds of SL his key stats are:
Metres - 1718
Drives - 207
Tackles - 68
Missed Tackles - 7
Errors - 13
Penalties - 0
And an additionaL stat for wingers which for me indicates workrate:
Dummy Half Runs - 88
'"
With stats like that I wonder why Hull didn't want to sign him up permanently either.
Quote ="tvoc"
Looking at Scott Donald's stats playing in a Champion team in 2009:
Metres - 1735
Drives - 219
Tackles - 70
Missed Tackles - 21
Errors - 26
Penalties - 1
Dummy Half Runs - 55
Those stats were amassed over =#FF000025 appearances.
Donald was the last of the antipodean contingent to be contracted for 2010 and now Leeds can't afford to recall Jones-Bishop from the Harlequins as there would be salary cap implications according to Gary Hetherington.
If he had chosen to promote one of the youthful local products in his place then presumably the salary cap wouldn't be as restrictive as it is currently being claimed to be.'"
Interesting comparison stats wise, and Broughton does seem to come off better. But there are many other factors. SUch as for 60% or last year, Donald was playing with a new Centre partner every week, and even when settled, was not a natural centre playing there.
I agree with you that its much better to have a young british (leodensian if possible) playing in that position, and that a quota spot is not best used on a winger, but I don't think Broughton was good enough for that.
He may come back to bite us, but he won't be a Jason Robinson IMO |
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| Quote ="tvoc"I don't rate eithers chances very highly in 2010. Broughton, I suspect, will continue to improve though and that will continue to be reflected in the relative stats.
'" Nor do I but I also don't think Broughton will ever hit the heights Donald has or that Donald is still capable of hitting.
Quote The key is making sure you release the right ones at the right time and retain the right ones for succession planning. Leeds will very likely need a new winger shortly. Leeds must have a real bolter (as yet unseen at 1st grade level) perhaps Chisolm?'" Leeds succession planning has been pretty decent for about 8 years now. I've no idea what Chisolm or Bush are capable of but, then again, I'd no idea of what Hall was capable of until he hit the 1st team and, I'll be honest, my initial appraisal didn't see him being the kind of player he was last year.
Quote As the master of the concise appraisal do you have any kind words for Tom Bush yet?'" Against Quins he had few chances but did what was asked of him with no errors. Very impressed with what he did against Wigan. Certainly some promise there and he looks more the part from his two wing appearances than BJB did there for his. |
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| Quote ="leicester_rhino"He may come back to bite us, but he won't be a Jason Robinson IMO'"
Why does Broughton need to be a 'modern day great' in two codes? Scott Donald certainly isn't.
The question for me was (even though it's now too late) could and should one of Broughton/Watkins/Jones-Bishop replace Scott Donald in the 2010 squad?
And as a supplementary to that, would he have been a better option than we are seeing now in Bush, Coady and Clarkson? |
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| Quote ="tvoc"Why does Broughton need to be a 'modern day great' in two codes? Scott Donald certainly isn't.
The question for me was (even though it's now too late) could and should one of Broughton/Watkins/Jones-Bishop replace Scott Donald in the 2010 squad?
And as a supplementary to that, would he have been a better option than we are seeing now in Bush, Coady and Clarkson?'"
Robinson was someone who let we let slip, and probably on of our biggest mistakes.
I don't think any of the above should have replaced Donald for the following reasons
Broughton - not good enough, not experienced enough
Watkins - wrong position, not experienced enough
Jones-Bishop - wrong position, not experienced enough
Now if they were good enough (if slightly less good than Donald), and were looking at the right position I would be tempted to have them as one of 2 main wingers at the club, provided there was ample cover in the squad. I wouldn't be willing to throw a kid with little experience into a full time role, when he is playing out of his favoured position.
Next season I culd see Donald being released, and one of them making it, or Bush or Chisholm, or even a combination like we had quite a lot with Smith/Hall in 2007 |
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| Quote ="tvoc"Why does Broughton need to be a 'modern day great' in two codes? Scott Donald certainly isn't.
The question for me was (even though it's now too late) could and should one of Broughton/Watkins/Jones-Bishop replace Scott Donald in the 2010 squad?
And as a supplementary to that, would he have been a better option than we are seeing now in Bush, Coady and Clarkson?'"
The powers that be offered what they thought appropriate this was rejected and the lad moved on let it go tvoc yer holding on too tight your ego's writing cheques your body can't cash!  |
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| Not that I can be too bothered about looking through a few pages of this but is there an arguement as to whether Gibson was offered a contract or told he wasn't needed?
If so yes he was but it wasn't what he wanted. That's why he moved on.
If there isn't that argument then sorry, as you were  |
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| Quote ="rhinoms"The powers that be offered what they thought appropriate this was rejected and the lad moved on let it go tvoc yer holding on too tight your ego's writing cheques your body can't cash!
'"
Inside information or can you link to any article anywhere that mentions a Leeds offer to Broughton? |
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| Quote ="tvoc"Inside information or can you link to any article anywhere that mentions a Leeds offer to Broughton?'"
Just going by what i was told when he left for Salford and his brother Brooke joined Bastien at Wire.
I think i also read it in the LE along with the deals that Gibson and Ratu rejected. |
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| Quote ="rhinoms"Just going by what i was told when he left for Salford and his brother Brooke joined Bastien at Wire.
I think i also read it in the LE along with the deals that Gibson and Ratu rejected.'"
I know I will probably get stick for this, but Ashley did get offered a new deal, however, Salford offered abit more too him and garenteed him the number 5 shirt and first team rugby, hense the reason why he chosen Salford. |
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| Quote ="Frosties."I know I will probably get stick for this, but Ashley did get offered a new deal, however, Salford offered a bit more too him and guaranteed him the number 5 shirt and first team rugby, hence the reason why he chose Salford.'"
I wonder if he realised that would mean playing as back up hooker? |
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| Quote The question for me was (even though it's now too late) could and should one of Broughton/Watkins/Jones-Bishop replace Scott Donald in the 2010 squad? '" The answer to your question is no. Watkins should (and was) be in the squad in addition to Donald. BJB should arguably be in the squad but, given he would've been behind Watkins in the "utility/cover" department he was let out on loan. That would leave Broughton well down the pecking order (and rightly so) which is why I assume the lad weighed up all his options and ended up at..................Salford. That's my view and clearly the view of the coaching staff and management
Quote And as a supplementary to that, would he have been a better option than we are seeing now in Bush, Coady and Clarkson?'" Possibly but given what I have stated above and given the clubs, sorry, given that Salford were barging down his door he wouldn't have hung around on the off-chance that Donald, Delaney and Watkins copped injuries. If the lad is as good as you think he is I don't blame him for taking the golden opportunity of 1st team rugby at........Salford........rather than languishing down the pecking order at Leeds waiting for injuries. I suppose the shame of it is that if he hadn't taken that offer at.......Salford.......he'd now be getting a chance to prove your point and show he's a better winger than Donald. |
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| Quote ="G1"The answer to your question is no. Watkins should (and was) be in the squad in addition to Donald. BJB should arguably be in the squad but, given he would've been behind Watkins in the "utility/cover" department he was let out on loan. That would leave Broughton well down the pecking order (and rightly so) which is why I assume the lad weighed up all his options and ended up at..................Salford. That's my view and clearly the view of the coaching staff and management
Possibly but given what I have stated above and given the clubs, sorry, given that Salford were barging down his door he wouldn't have hung around on the off-chance that Donald, Delaney and Watkins copped injuries. If the lad is as good as you think he is I don't blame him for taking the golden opportunity of 1st team rugby at........Salford........rather than languishing down the pecking order at Leeds waiting for injuries. I suppose the shame of it is that if he hadn't taken that offer at.......Salford.......he'd now be getting a chance to prove your point and show he's a better winger than Donald.'"
the fact that on paper he has loads going for him.
SL experience
Young
British
No quota spot
but none of the 12 clubs finishing above Salford in the table were willing to take a gamble on him despite all the above positives says to me that none of those teams saw much in him.
If he improves, then fair enough, we missed out, that is a big IF for me.
Also, whilst Francis Meli still gets a game at a top club, show just how little he was rated |
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I wonder how Broughton's & Lyne's stats compare for last week's game?
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| Quote ="leicester_rhino"none of the 12 clubs finishing above Salford in the table were willing to take a gamble on him despite all the above positives says to me that none of those teams saw much in him.
'" You picked up on the non too subtle tone of my post.
We didn't want him, Hull didn't want him and they're the two clubs that got the closest look.
As a complete free agent, free to negotiate and go to any club in the league I think his final destination tells you how most within the game judge him, TVOC aside.
Still, as you say, we MIGHT all be wrong. |
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| Quote ="G1"We didn't want him, Hull didn't want him and they're the two clubs that got the closest look.
'"
If Leeds didn't want him why did they offer him a new deal (G1/rhinoms), it was in the LE and everything apparently (rhinoms)
Once Leeds chose to extend Donald's contract then Broughton stayed where he was in the pecking order. I wasn't surprised he left in that circumstance.
My point then (as I'm sure you recall) was that I felt it was time to say thank you and bon voyage to Donald (on the assumption that he was also a quota player with further reductions on the way) and give his squad place to one of Broughton (wing) / Watkins (centre) / Jones-Bishop (full-back)
There are players who have found themselves playing on the wing in 1st grade for Leeds this season that are much less accomplished in the position (IMO) than Jodie Broughton.
Quote ="leicester_rhino"Interesting comparison stats wise, and Broughton does seem to come off better. But there are many other factors. SUch as for 60% or last year, Donald was playing with a new Centre partner every week, and even when settled, was not a natural centre playing there.'"
Why the latitude afforded to the settled wingman in the champion team (Donald's 2009 stats) in his fourth continuous season of almost unbroken starting appearances?
Meanwhile Broughton was making the step up to a higher level, settling into a new squad where he wasn't an automatic pick, combining training with his new team-mates in unfamiliar surroundings with his college course in Doncaster (IIRC a morning course curtailing some of his time with the rest of the Hull squad), playing for a team on a season long slide in to the bottom three. Despite all that 5 tries in 7 appearances. This season more settled but still with a struggling outfit at the wrong end of SL.
No, on reflection I think you're right, Donald had it real tough by comparison. |
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| Quote ="tvoc"If Leeds didn't want him why did they offer him a new deal (G1/rhinoms), it was in the LE and everything apparently (rhinoms)
'"
I didn't see rhinoms provide you with any link so assumed you were correct and my recollection was wrong. Are you now accepting Leeds offered him a deal or do you still want evidence of that?
Quote Once Leeds chose to extend Donald's contract then Broughton stayed where he was in the pecking order. I wasn't surprised he left in that circumstance.'" Nor I. It was the right thing for us and for him.
Quote My point then (as I'm sure you recall) was that I felt it was time to say thank you and bon voyage to Donald (on the assumption that he was also a quota player with further reductions on the way) and give his squad place to one of Broughton (wing) / Watkins (centre) / Jones-Bishop (full-back) '" Not one of those players is a better winger than Scott Donald. Your major concern last year when it came to the right centre was that a quality player fill the jersey and you criticized GH for not scouting overseas players for that position. Your assumptions regarding the quota have been shown to be wrong.
Quote There are players who have found themselves playing on the wing in 1st grade for Leeds this season that are much less accomplished in the position (IMO) than Jodie Broughton.'" Should have hung about then shouldn't he, if you're saying he was offered a contract. He might've been able to cement a place and prove you right, As it is he headed for the dizzy heights of Salford.
Quote Why the latitude afforded to the settled wingman in the champion team (Donald's 2009 stats) in his fourth continuous season of almost unbroken starting appearances?'" Sorry, run that by me again.
Quote Meanwhile Broughton was making the step up to a higher level'" icon_smile.gif Can you quantify that. What higher level?
Quote No, on reflection I think you're right, Donald had it real tough by comparison'" You've lost me. You might have to be a bit less cryptic with the point you're making.
Let me ask you, if Broughton was all that, given he was free to go anywhere, why did he end up at Salford? |
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Quote ="G1"I didn't see rhinoms provide you with any link so assumed you were correct and my recollection was wrong. Are you now accepting Leeds offered him a deal or do you still want evidence of that? '"
Evidence would be useful to clarify the situation one way or the other. As it stands you and ms believe it to be the case whereas I have no recollection of such an offer. Are you withdrawing what you previously said just because I don't recall it? Sat here 100 miles south of Headingley I'm sure there's plenty I miss.
Quote ="G1"Nor I. It was the right thing for us and for him.'"
In your opinion but not in mine. On that I think we'll just have to agree to differ. If we substituted Donald and Broughton for Buderus and McShane would we be any closer to an agreement?
Quote ="G1"Not one of those players is a better winger than Scott Donald. Your major concern last year when it came to the right centre was that a quality player fill the jersey and you criticized GH for not scouting overseas players for that position. Your assumptions regarding the quota have been shown to be wrong.'"
Is Donald on or off quota? You presumably know, unfortunately I don't.
That said to me he is a born and bred Australian citizen, overseas trained (not a product of any SL team's academy) and before the 'new' regulations came about I'd expect to a degree of 99% certain that he was a 'quota' player. You can never be 100% on anything where the RFL are concerned. If he were to become exempt under the 'cajones' clause, again I haven't heard anything to that effect but accept I may have missed it.
Last season Leeds had ample space on their overseas 'quota' as defined here www.superleague.co.uk/page.php?id=346 and salary cap money to spare (not least since Eastwood's contract was unexpectantly deferred 12 months.) Recruiting overseas was an option but not the only one, indeed when Gleeson became available we had the 'IF' post from G1 no less.
Quote ="G1"Should have hung about then shouldn't he, if you're saying he was offered a contract. He might've been able to cement a place and prove you right, As it is he headed for the dizzy heights of Salford.'"
It's G1 and rhinoms that say he was offered a contract, who am I to argue.
Quote ="G1"Sorry, run that by me again.
 Can you quantify that. What higher level?'"
Do you not think SL 1st grade is a higher level than Academy rugby.
Quote ="G1"You've lost me. You might have to be a bit less cryptic with the point you're making.'"
Which point? That SL is a higher level than the Academy. I'm shocked, especially as you repeatedly inform the masses that Jones-Bishop is learning far more (even despite of) the coaching he's receiving at the Harlequins then he would in Leeds' Academy.
Quote ="G1"Let me ask you, if Broughton was all that, given he was free to go anywhere, why did he end up at Salford?'"
It might have something to do with there only being 28 1st grade winger spots available in SL and of those how many were available (ie. not already filled by contracted players.) Leeds had Donald and Hall, St Helens had Gardner and Meli, Hull had Briscoe and Calderwood, Huddersfield had Hodgson and Cudjoe, Hull Kr had Fox and Colbon, Bradford had Sheriffe and Reardon, Castleford had Owen and Wainwright, Les Catalans had Bell and Pelo, Harlequins had Wells and Sharp, Wakefield had Blanch and George, Warrington had Riley and Hicks, Wigan had Roberts and Richards.
That left Salford and the Crusaders as having opportunities for 1st grade rugby in his chosen position. Of the two he perhaps didn't fancy South Wales (as it was at the time) and took the other option.
Why do you think young Australian coaches come to SL? Isn't it because there are only a limited number of 1st grade opportunities in the world of RL and it's a first step on the ladder. |
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Quote ="G1"I didn't see rhinoms provide you with any link so assumed you were correct and my recollection was wrong. Are you now accepting Leeds offered him a deal or do you still want evidence of that? '"
Evidence would be useful to clarify the situation one way or the other. As it stands you and ms believe it to be the case whereas I have no recollection of such an offer. Are you withdrawing what you previously said just because I don't recall it? Sat here 100 miles south of Headingley I'm sure there's plenty I miss.
Quote ="G1"Nor I. It was the right thing for us and for him.'"
In your opinion but not in mine. On that I think we'll just have to agree to differ. If we substituted Donald and Broughton for Buderus and McShane would we be any closer to an agreement?
Quote ="G1"Not one of those players is a better winger than Scott Donald. Your major concern last year when it came to the right centre was that a quality player fill the jersey and you criticized GH for not scouting overseas players for that position. Your assumptions regarding the quota have been shown to be wrong.'"
Is Donald on or off quota? You presumably know, unfortunately I don't.
That said to me he is a born and bred Australian citizen, overseas trained (not a product of any SL team's academy) and before the 'new' regulations came about I'd expect to a degree of 99% certain that he was a 'quota' player. You can never be 100% on anything where the RFL are concerned. If he were to become exempt under the 'cajones' clause, again I haven't heard anything to that effect but accept I may have missed it.
Last season Leeds had ample space on their overseas 'quota' as defined here www.superleague.co.uk/page.php?id=346 and salary cap money to spare (not least since Eastwood's contract was unexpectantly deferred 12 months.) Recruiting overseas was an option but not the only one, indeed when Gleeson became available we had the 'IF' post from G1 no less.
Quote ="G1"Should have hung about then shouldn't he, if you're saying he was offered a contract. He might've been able to cement a place and prove you right, As it is he headed for the dizzy heights of Salford.'"
It's G1 and rhinoms that say he was offered a contract, who am I to argue.
Quote ="G1"Sorry, run that by me again.
Can you quantify that. What higher level?'"
Do you not think SL 1st grade is a higher level than Academy rugby.
Quote ="G1"You've lost me. You might have to be a bit less cryptic with the point you're making.'"
Which point? That SL is a higher level than the Academy. I'm shocked, especially as you repeatedly inform the masses that Jones-Bishop is learning far more (even despite of) the coaching he's receiving at the Harlequins then he would in Leeds' Academy.
Quote ="G1"Let me ask you, if Broughton was all that, given he was free to go anywhere, why did he end up at Salford?'"
It might have something to do with there only being 28 1st grade winger spots available in SL and of those how many were available (ie. not already filled by contracted players.) Leeds had Donald and Hall, St Helens had Gardner and Meli, Hull had Briscoe and Calderwood, Huddersfield had Hodgson and Cudjoe, Hull Kr had Fox and Colbon, Bradford had Sheriffe and Reardon, Castleford had Owen and Wainwright, Les Catalans had Bell and Pelo, Harlequins had Wells and Sharp, Wakefield had Blanch and George, Warrington had Riley and Hicks, Wigan had Roberts and Richards.
That left Salford and the Crusaders as having opportunities for 1st grade rugby in his chosen position. Of the two he perhaps didn't fancy South Wales (as it was at the time) and took the other option.
Why do you think young Australian coaches come to SL? Isn't it because there are only a limited number of 1st grade opportunities in the world of RL and it's a first step on the ladder. | |
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I've no link to the contract offer tvoc just something i was told and i thought was in the LE article about his,Ratu and Gibsons departure.
Harrigan has already confirmed the offer to Gibson wasn't deemed goood enough by the player himself whereas Ratu and i'm sure(i stand to be corrected) Broughton also were offered "dual registration" which they turned down.
ATEOD if he was deemed good enough by the powers that be surely he'd of been offered a better deal no?
Imo at least i still think he's a long way to go to prove he's "one that got away" i was more dissapointed that we lost Ratu because i thought he was starting to show promise in the 1st team and now he's wallowing in the reserves at KR which is a shame.
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| Quote ="rhinoms"ATEOD if he was deemed good enough by the powers that be =#FF0000surely he'd of been offered a better deal =#FF0000no?'"
Was Ellis when Leeds almost missed out on him, was Calderwood or Scruton or Gibson or Fox.
I think we know how it works at Headingley by now. =#FF0000If there is an offer made, it is almost always a first and final offer, in line with Hetherington's view of a player's experience, standing within the game, importance to the squad and affordability within the salary cap and I have no issue with that. That a player can often earn more elsewhere is well documented not least by the club captain's speech at the conclusion of last year's GF.
My issue was with the decision to re-sign Donald instead (as he was a quota(?) and presumably more expensive option) It's a similar position to the one advanced regularly on here in relation to Buderus/McShane. I at least try to stay on the same side of the fence.
Quote ="rhinoms"Imo at least i still think he's a long way to go to prove he's "one that got away" '"
Time will tell but he wouldn't be the first ex Leeds Academy winger to go on and forge a respectable career in SL once given the opportunity denied to them at Headingley (some even going on to gain full GB/England caps) and he doubtless won't be the last. |
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| Quote ="tvoc"Was Ellis when Leeds almost missed out on him, was Calderwood or Scruton or Gibson or Fox.
I think we know how it works at Headingley by now. =#FF0000If there is an offer made, it is almost always a first and final offer, in line with Hetherington's view of a player's experience, standing within the game, importance to the squad and affordability within the salary cap and I have no issue with that. That a player can often earn more elsewhere is well documented not least by the club captain's speech at the conclusion of last year's GF.
My issue was with the decision to re-sign Donald instead (as he was a quota(?) and presumably more expensive option) It's a similar position to the one advanced regularly on here in relation to Buderus/McShane. I at least try to stay on the same side of the fence.
Time will tell but he wouldn't be the first ex Leeds Academy winger to go on and forge a respectable career in SL once given the opportunity denied to them at Headingley (some even going on to gain full GB/England caps) and he doubtless won't be the last.'"
That's exactly my point,IF he was deemed that good then surely the offer would of reflected that?
I'm aware of what others were offered in relation to their worth to the team so by offering Broughton what they did that reflected where they saw him in terms of potential and pecking order afterall if he was seen as an "elite" youngster he'd of been tied down to a long term deal ala Bjb,Watkins and Mcshane.
I agree he may go on to prove himself a quality winger but i still don't think he was ready to walk into Donalds place.
As for this quota you keep mentioning we are within it and have broken no rules so i don't see the problem and i'd also expect GH to replace quota players with homegrown ones who are deemed at least as good if not better. |
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| Quote ="rhinoms"That's exactly my point,IF he was deemed that good then surely the offer would of reflected that?'"
Who has said that he was deemed that good by Leeds, I haven't, so it's a bit of a strange proposition. Broughton was an =#FF0000Academy player at Leeds with his only SL appearances coming while on loan at Hull. Leeds' offer (if there was one) will have been in line with that. The bulk of the serious cap money will have been allocated elsewhere, not least in the likes of Donald and Buderus' direction for example. As already indicated Leeds' offers can be bettered elsewhere and it (understandably at times) costs Leeds some good players that they probably would have liked to retain, never mind a player who was still to make his 1st grade debut with the club.
Quote ="rhinoms"I agree he may go on to prove himself a quality winger but i still don't think he was ready to walk into Donalds place.'"
I wonder how you felt when Richard Mathers was given an opportunity at Gary Connolly's expense or when Lee Smith and Ryan Hall were given the opportunity to win a place in the 1st grade. Those didn't turn out so bad.
Quote ="rhinoms"As for this quota you keep mentioning we are within it and have broken no rules so i don't see the problem and i'd also expect GH to replace quota players with homegrown ones who are deemed at least as good if not better.'"
No doubt.
Gary Hetherington set himself a target of a 80/20 split (20/5), this season he's achieved 18/7 and missed his own target.
Scott Donald - on quota or off quota? |
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| Quote ="tvoc"Who has said that he was deemed that good by Leeds, I haven't, so it's a bit of a strange proposition. Broughton was an =#FF0000Academy player at Leeds with his only SL appearances coming while on loan at Hull. Leeds' offer (if there was one) will have been in line with that. The bulk of the serious cap money will have been allocated elsewhere, not least in the likes of Donald and Buderus' direction for example. As already indicated Leeds' offers can be bettered elsewhere and it (understandably at times) costs Leeds some good players that they probably would have liked to retain, never mind a player who was still to make his 1st grade debut with the club.
I wonder how you felt when Richard Mathers was given an opportunity at Gary Connolly's expense or when Lee Smith and Ryan Hall were given the opportunity to win a place in the 1st grade. Those didn't turn out so bad.
No doubt.
Gary Hetherington set himself a target of a 80/20 split (20/5), this season he's achieved 18/7 and missed his own target.
Scott Donald - on quota or off quota?'"
At the end of the day Broughton was not good enough to take a full time Wing spot at the countries top club. He was offered a contract that will have reflected his position as backup, but someone else (Salfrod), would give him a better opportunity, and maybe pay him more.
I don't see what Leeds or Broughton have done wrong.
You argument about McShane or Buderus is that McShane is currently 3rd in line for a position that has 1 starting position. Losing buderus, and leaving McShane to take up the slack would not leave us as exposed as having a player with little SL experience at Leeds as pretty much a guarunteed starter every week.
For the record, I would not let Buderus go, at least until his contract expries. |
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| Quote ="tvoc"Who has said that he was deemed that good by Leeds, I haven't, so it's a bit of a strange proposition. Broughton was an =#FF0000Academy player at Leeds with his only SL appearances coming while on loan at Hull. Leeds' offer (if there was one) will have been in line with that. The bulk of the serious cap money will have been allocated elsewhere, not least in the likes of Donald and Buderus' direction for example. As already indicated Leeds' offers can be bettered elsewhere and it (understandably at times) costs Leeds some good players that they probably would have liked to retain, never mind a player who was still to make his 1st grade debut with the club.
I wonder how you felt when Richard Mathers was given an opportunity at Gary Connolly's expense or when Lee Smith and Ryan Hall were given the opportunity to win a place in the 1st grade. Those didn't turn out so bad.
No doubt.
Gary Hetherington set himself a target of a 80/20 split (20/5), this season he's achieved 18/7 and missed his own target.
Scott Donald - on quota or off quota?'"
I'll tell you that i felt we let Connolly go a little early in terms of squad numbers but still thought Mathers was up to it as i did with Smith and Hall this isn't the case with Broughton but i would of liked to see Ratu stay but i back the clubs policy.
I'm sure you can find posts where i'm defending Hall as i did Gibson et al.
Like i said maybe we'll be proved wrong and good luck to the lad but i don't think he's one to "come back and bite us". |
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| Quote ="tvoc"
In your opinion but not in mine. On that I think we'll just have to agree to differ. If we substituted Donald and Broughton for Buderus and McShane would we be any closer to an agreement?
'"
We might. Simply put, I think McShane has better potential than Broughton (in their respective positions) and I think the Antipodean keeping McShane out of the team hasn't achieved a fraction of what Donald has in the ENglish game, whatever his reputation prior to arriving here.
I judge players on merit. Donald has earned it as one of Leeds best wingers. Buderus has been massively underwhelming.
Quote Is Donald on or off quota? You presumably know, unfortunately I don't.'" At least one of Donald Webb and or Kylie are off quota and I see no reason why all three shouldn't be.
Quote That said to me he is a born and bred Australian citizen, overseas trained (not a product of any SL team's academy) and before the 'new' regulations came about I'd expect to a degree of 99% certain that he was a 'quota' player. You can never be 100% on anything where the RFL are concerned. If he were to become exempt under the 'cajones' clause, again I haven't heard anything to that effect but accept I may have missed it.'" And? So he might've been a quota player under the old regulation and he might not be under the current ones. Where are we going with this?
Quote Do you not think SL 1st grade is a higher level than Academy rugby. '" I do. That said, it's probably not a massive step up from from our Academy to Salford's 1st team
Quote It might have something to do with there only being 28 1st grade winger spots available in SL and of those how many were available (ie. not already filled by contracted players.) Leeds had Donald and Hall, St Helens had Gardner and Meli, Hull had Briscoe and Calderwood, Huddersfield had Hodgson and Cudjoe, Hull Kr had Fox and Colbon, Bradford had Sheriffe and Reardon, Castleford had Owen and Wainwright, Les Catalans had Bell and Pelo, Harlequins had Wells and Sharp, Wakefield had Blanch and George, Warrington had Riley and Hicks, Wigan had Roberts and Richards.'" If any of those teams had considered Broughton a better option than their incumbents they would've signed him. They didn't. Bradford signed Reardon this off season. Reardon. They could've signed Broughton. They signed Reardon.
Quote That left Salford and the Crusaders as having opportunities for 1st grade rugby in his chosen position. Of the two he perhaps didn't fancy South Wales (as it was at the time) and took the other option.'" So, he didn't think he could oust the likes of Sheriffe, Blanch and Wainwright for their jerseys eh? Seems the lad has a much lower opinion of himself than you do. |
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Can you quantify that. What higher level?'"
