Amazing that their "dominance" ended when a salary cap was brought in and started to bite eh?

...but when it did bite, they just cheated!

I think you will find that you could not be more wrong. Totally secure with a long term irrevocable lease. A wealthy chairman who is as much a fan as an owner and a fabulous business man to boot. Most consistent side in 2012 with the biggest crowds ( best supported)and we don't use the pitch as a car park whilst the owners play cricket next door,

As for the chip on my shoulder. So long as its served with a pooles pie, sorted.

Desperate to win, yes, but we have to do it against the odds when bitter and twisted idiots run our game with the same old predjudice against a side who led the way for so many years. Well we are back on top now, Or had you not noticed


You just can't stand playing second fiddle to us, or should that be fifth fiddle
Take a chill pill and look at where you are. Again.

I've looked where we are.
We're still Champions
We're still world club champions
You lot are still insecure 2nd class tenants in a football stadium forever in St Helens shadow

Very well put Mr Dip

Trophies in the SL era:

Saint Helens: 19 (4 Grand Finals, 6 League Leaders Shields, 7 Challenge Cups, 2 World Club Challenges)
Bradford: 12 (3 Grand Finals, 4 League Leaders Shields, 2 Challenge Cups, 3 World club Challenges)
Leeds: 11 (5 Grand Finals, 2 League Leaders Shields, 1 Challenge Cup, 3 World Club Challenges)
Wigan: 8 (2 Grand Finals, 4 League Leaders Shields, 2 Challenge Cups)
Warrington: 4 (3 Challenge Cups, 1 League Leaders Shields)
Hull FC: 1 (Challenge Cup)
Sheffield: 1 (Challenge Cup)

The pie munchers are nothing but an average side in the pantheon of SL teams.

The Bog Brushers have always been a bit odd - why else would they bring the most ridiculous projectiles to away games with them.

They spentall last year on here telling us they were champions ,been a bit quiet this year until now,and its always a different one .Is it that the others have grown up a bit.Oh and their owner and chairman fabulous businessman he probably is ,but didnt do much with london did he?

Since I can't be d joining in with the pishing contests about league positions (others here seem happy to oblige there), it might be worth pointing out that, as far as I know, the cricket club have never in any way owned the rugby ground, although I believe the reverse has at times been true.

Besides which, why would anyone use your football pitch as a car park while they played cricket at Tesco? Seems an odd comparison to make when only one of the clubs has a cricket pitch next door. Maybe just me though.

YCCC don't use the pitch as a car park now.
No need to since the redevelopment of the cricket ground & the construction of the Carnegie pavilion.
Leeds CFAC (not suer if those are the correct set of initials) used to own the entire complex.
Yorkshire County Cricket Club has never owned any part of the stadium until it bought the cricket side off Caddick holdings with the aid of substantial loans from Leeds City Council.

Your St Helens total doesn't equate to the breakdown you've included.

How have you represented St Helens SL success in 1996?

When was the League Leaders Shield introduced during the SL Era?

Also if we're talking SL Era pots, Wigan won the final two Premiership trophies in 1996 and 1997.

cheers tvoc

5 LLS amended to 6 (1996, 2002, 2005, 2006, 2007, 200icon_cool.gif.

Those two trophies clearly aren't recognised by devotees of the SL era therefore they don't count. Though I'm sure they would be recognised had Leeds won those two Premiership Trophies in 1996 and 1997 instead



However, while a certain number of our more bitter and insecure contributors on this forum are at pains to remind everyone that Leeds are a more successful club than Wigan during the SL era in terms of silverware, I think it's worth noting Wigan's record against Leeds since SL "Year Zero" kicked in and previous RL history was deleted...

... I stand to be corrected by you of course in the event of any errors or omissions below...

[uWigan V Leeds (SL era)[/u
Regular Round SL games played = 43
Wigan wins = 23
Leeds wins = 16
Draws = 4

SL Play-offs/Finals games played = 8
Wigan wins = 5
Leeds wins = 3

Challenge Cup games played = 6
Wigan wins = 2
Leeds wins = 4

Premiership Trophy games played = 1
Wigan wins = 1
Leeds wins =0

Total games played = 58
Wigan wins = 31
Leeds wins = 23
Draws = 4

Of course.

__________

SL Era Regular Rounds:

1 - Avg Fin 2.35
=#0000BFSt Helens - Pl 455, Won 327, Drawn 13, Lost 115, Pts For 14700, Pts Agst 8913, Diff +5787, Pts 665 =#FF0000*(-2)

2 - Avg Fin 3.47
=#0000BFWigan - Pl 455, Won 308, Drawn 18, Lost 129, Pts For 13540, Pts Agst 8281, Diff +5259, Pts 628 =#FF0000*(-6)

3 - Avg Fin 3.53
=#0000BFLeeds - Pl 455, Won 302, Drawn 11, Lost 142, Pts For 13531, Pts Agst 9407, Diff +4124, Pts 615

4 - Avg Fin 4.24
=#0000BFBradford - Pl 455, Won 290, Drawn 15, Lost 150, Pts For 13468, Pts Agst 9611, Diff +3857, Pts 585 =#FF0000*(-10)

*Pts Deducted for salary cap breaches and/or administration.

Thanks. I knew I'd confused a play-off game for a regular season game among those stats. Turns out it was the play-off eliminator (proper semi final) in 2008 at Headingley which Leeds won 18-14. My stats source was the excellent Wigan website which has a list of all their results going all the way back to 1895! Saints has a similar excellent independent website. It's a shame no Leeds fan has possessed a similar level of enthusiasm for producing and maintaining an internet archive of the same depth and quality.


I wasn't aware that Wigan's overall win/loss record during the SL era was better than Leeds. That does surprise me. Thanks for the info.

Since when does the amount of wins/loses judge the success of a club?

It's titles and silverware that get written into the history books.

Would that only be silverware conveniently counted since year zero (the start of the SL era) or everything prior to that too?

think its fair to count the ones where only one team is full time?

As you well know, pre-SL Rugby League is now irrelevant and immaterial.

The previous 100+ years of Rugby League was simply necessary to establish a supporter base so that the SL could be sustainable.

Weren't Leeds also full time prior to the SL era when Wigan were winning everything in sight?

I guess it could be argued whether it is fair to count the silverware where only a select few SL clubs are able to compete at the level in which the salary cap is currently set as a 4 horse race is about as good as it gets these days.

Yes, I know. Pol Pot is still alive and kicking




If we carry on the way we are, there will only be half a dozen SL clubs left in 10 years time or maybe less. The game isn't sustainable on it's current course.

I should hope he is, it was only 5 years ago when he won Britain's Got Talent.

Don't watch crap like that on TV so I've no idea what you're talking about

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_PottsJust for you.[/url

Quote ="William Eve"My stats source was the excellent Wigan website which has a list of all their results going all the way back to 1895!'" Is that the Cherry and White website? I hope their efforts generally are more reliable than their attempts to draw up a cumulative Regular Round table wigan.rlfans.com/fusion_pages/in ... age_id=259 - I reference that as I maintain one for my own records (hence my previous post including the 2012 season) and getting the win column in balance with losses and pts for in balance with pts agst would be pretty basic requirements. Quote ="William Eve"Saints has a similar excellent independent website. It's a shame no Leeds fan has possessed a similar level of enthusiasm for producing and maintaining an internet archive of the same depth and quality.'" Agreed, that is a shame yes. It's something I'd hope the club would be interested in doing also. Quote ="William Eve"I wasn't aware that Wigan's overall win/loss record during the SL era was better than Leeds. That does surprise me. Thanks for the info.'" Wigan's wasn't before Brian McDermott took control at Leeds. Under McClennan Leeds had finally hunted down and overtaken Bradford for second spot behind St Helens only for Wigan to pass both Yorkshire clubs as the real mover on the table.

Quote ="William Eve"My stats source was the excellent Wigan website which has a list of all their results going all the way back to 1895!'" Is that the Cherry and White website? I hope their efforts generally are more reliable than their attempts to draw up a cumulative Regular Round table wigan.rlfans.com/fusion_pages/in ... age_id=259 - I reference that as I maintain one for my own records (hence my previous post including the 2012 season) and getting the win column in balance with losses and pts for in balance with pts agst would be pretty basic requirements. Quote ="William Eve"Saints has a similar excellent independent website. It's a shame no Leeds fan has possessed a similar level of enthusiasm for producing and maintaining an internet archive of the same depth and quality.'" Agreed, that is a shame yes. It's something I'd hope the club would be interested in doing also. Quote ="William Eve"I wasn't aware that Wigan's overall win/loss record during the SL era was better than Leeds. That does surprise me. Thanks for the info.'" Wigan's wasn't before Brian McDermott took control at Leeds. Under McClennan Leeds had finally hunted down and overtaken Bradford for second spot behind St Helens only for Wigan to pass both Yorkshire clubs as the real mover on the table.